Guns

[Camo]

The arms argument is almost identical to the nuclear weapon argument... They have one, so we need one too.

You guys are so deep in it you can't see from the outside in.
The problem isn't the guns, you're right in saying it is the people. An entire country has been bred into a gun culture that has been around that long, that it appears so normal you can't understand why anyone would oppose it?

It's like trying to reason with religious people, if you could there'd be no religion.

/my 2 cents.

 

[bren]

I guess what we Aussies have a hard time understanding is the need for a gun. I myself grew up in a rough part of Sydney, but never knew of anyone needing one.

The main culprits for gun play here are the outlaw bikie gangs?.

 

[highoctane]

Does anyone really need a gun? maybe maybe not. This is definitely an argument that fall's into the "politics,religion,healthcare" category.
I have many hobbies and guns are one of them. Unfortunately they are very dangerous if they land in the wrong hands. although I understand not everyone's
views are the same, and I respect one's own opinion

 

[WARPTH]

Bikie gangs don't shoot up schools. Kids have too easy access to these deadly weapons. And while they're all angry they don't think of the consequences or its too late.

 

[Geezer]

Bikie gangs don't shoot up schools. Kids have too easy access to these deadly weapons. And while they're all angry they don't think of the consequences or its too late.

They only have easy access to them if Mom and Dad don't secure them properly. When they play games for hours that involve shooting people they get hardened to and removed from the thought of death. Just hit reset and life begins again.

 

[Geezer]

I guess what we Aussies have a hard time understanding is the need for a gun. I myself grew up in a rough part of Sydney, but never knew of anyone needing one..

It isn't a NEED it is a RIGHT to have a gun. The only thing I shoot is paper targets but it is my right to be able to do that with any firearm I want. I can't believe that you Aussies, who (as I understand) were exiled from England for being non-law abiding (ok, sent to prison) have become so mellow that you let your government take away that right. How would you react if motorcycles were outlawed because they weren't needed and lots of people riding them died?
Ok, l"ll get off my soapbox now.

 

[ssky0078]

I don't understand the gun culture in America at all.
There's one of the worst shootings and gun and ammo sales sky rocket??

Why the fuck do you all want to shoot each other for?
An armed population solves gun problems?
Mental health issues are non repairable from where I'm sitting, clinically insane or just insane... In the US it's one or the other. The gun culture you all are part of looks insane from here....


Begin the rationalization of the culture and the flaming





Now lol

The skyrocket in sales is the fear that they will take them away from us for good. So people try to buy what they can before it is all gone. In Phoenix after the Jared Laughner shooting of Gabby Giffords every single Glock 33 round magazine was sold out. 3 months later they were all stocked up again and people didn't care.

You have to remember America was founded on the gun. Our Bill of Rights provides protection to us in order that we remain civil and don't have to have another revolution to protect ourselves. Our first amendment allows us to say what we want. Our second amendment allows us to defend ourselves with deadly force if necessary. Our third amendment right allows us to turn away military forces and not help them. Our fourth amendment right allows us to not give up our property up unless legally ordered to. One can view most of these as a response to what the British attempted to do to us before we picked up the guns and kicked them out of our country. The forefathers wanted to protect us in the future from the activities of a monarchy/government like the British had perpetrated.

I'm not from the UK nor have I ever been, but I love their television programming. On there it almost always seems it's just the criminals that have guns, and some times they are more well armed than the police. To me that is a scary thought.

 

[ssky0078]

I can understand why you would feel that way because you are not here in the US so what you're saying does not sound so crazy. But as an American, I love my guns. I build them for a living. I enjoy teaching people build and going out to the range. This is my right. I don't go around shooting people. Guns are easy to blame because most people don't understand them. Now don't you think its silly if we tried to ban fertilizer after the Oklahoma bombing? People are fucked up and they will find a way to kill.

Oh and don't forget mexico. You find bodies on the streets all day. and they don't even have readily available to the public.

So, get this crazy story. The guns they get down in Mexico come from the US a lot of times. There is a 10x markup. So your 500 handgun goes for 5000 on the other side of the border. On top of that they do bundle deals like Best Buy, a handgun, shotgun and AR for 10k.

 

[ssky0078]

BTW, here are my babies

my first custom ar build

How much and how to order? I love the Punisher logo on the side.

 

[ssky0078]

Again, i'm a gun noob so sorry if I don't understand. Maybe our cultures are too different. I'm not suggesting banning guns... but it seems too easy in the states to grab a hold of long barrel guns.

I agree that there are many other ways to cause harm and most of the problem IS the people, but I think the image on guns is smeared when some of those kids were pumped with 12 bullets...Sure bombs and airplanes could happen but what happened after those incidents? Airport security got tighter, if you happen to buy tons of fertilizer now you immediately get flagged. It seems to me that all those precautions are welcomed but as soon as gun laws are suggest its suddenly taboo because of 2ndA. There's got to be a middle ground somewhere. But you can't say guns are not responsible at all.

Your argument on alcohol and smoke is a weak one because those are still hot topics and the laws are consistently changing. I can remind you that 15 years ago you could smoke in public buildings and RIDE programs were almost non-existent(at least in Canada)

People will always find a way whether guns or something else. Human ingenuity is a mixed blessing. If a crazy were to be functional, like most of these people are that pull of these horrific events, all they have to do is the math.

The simple question is if I want to do something, how could I do it and not get caught. The scary ones are the guys like McVeigh and Kacynzki because they did a lot of planning prior to their strikes.

Just think about it for a second, If you want a bunch of fertilizer all you have to do is buy 2 bags a month from 2 different locations for 2 years and pay cash. I just looked it up you could get a 36 lb bag at a time. In the end you would have almost 3500 lbs of fertilizer. McVeigh did it it with 5000 lbs. I'm sure in Phoenix there are at least 30 different Home Depot or Lowes. For locations to buy fertizlizer that's not even counting the ACE hardwares, Walmarts, etc.

When I purchased my handgun they actually tried to sell me a shotgun and AR at the same time. On top of that she was going to give me 10% off on the second and third gun if I bought the same day. It is easy to get a small arsenal together in no time if you don't have a prior record.

As I'm typing this I hope I don't get flagged by some Homeland Security team, LOL. I just have one of those brains that I can figure out how to do just about anything.

 

[ssky0078]

Since Everyone missed what I said about Switzerland let me repeat. The Swiss have a people's militia not an army. That means the mass public is armed and there to defend the country. We don't often hear of these horrible acts there. Why? What are they doing different? I don't know but, I do know guns aren't the problem, people are.

The swiss are one of the many nations that still have conscription and require military service of it's male poplulation. In that 20% of the male population are rejected due to physical or mental defect. Only those that have participated in military service are allowed to keep a firearm in their home.

So in essence you arm all the people that are fit to be armed and train them. You then only allow the guns into their hands after their service is completed.

 

[bren]

It isn't a NEED it is a RIGHT to have a gun. The only thing I shoot is paper targets but it is my right to be able to do that with any firearm I want. I can't believe that you Aussies, who (as I understand) were exiled from England for being non-law abiding (ok, sent to prison) have become so mellow that you let your government take away that right. How would you react if motorcycles were outlawed because they weren't needed and lots of people riding them died?
Ok, l"ll get off my soapbox now.

Mate most of the convicts sent here were sent here for petty crimes like stealing bread so they and their family could eat..

I know it is our right to have a gun... I guess it's also my right to keep a box of tampons in my pocket... I wouldn't use either... Lol

 

[ssky0078]

The arms argument is almost identical to the nuclear weapon argument... They have one, so we need one too.

You guys are so deep in it you can't see from the outside in.
The problem isn't the guns, you're right in saying it is the people. An entire country has been bred into a gun culture that has been around that long, that it appears so normal you can't understand why anyone would oppose it?

It's like trying to reason with religious people, if you could there'd be no religion.

/my 2 cents.

Maybe you guys just have it lucky down under. When I was growing up there were 3 separate shootings the year before I was to enter high school. One at the state fair, one at the mall, and one at the school. I played little league with one of the shooters. My parents enrolled me in a private school instead of allowing me to go to the public school where this was all affiliated with. My neighbor even shot himself in the foot, ala, Plaxico Burress style while going to school. Here's the messed up part is that I was in mostly white suburbia.

I didn't actually buy a gun until I had an attempted home break in. I was home and a man stuck his head in my garage door and then ran out. I live in one of the nicer neighborhoods in the state of AZ.

There was a shooting at one of my sister business a couple months ago. Not gonna lie, I began to bring my gun to work. If I have a chance to be shot, I at least want a chance to shoot back.

Maybe we just need to give up all the guns, grow out our mullets, wear high jeans shorts, and play rugby like real men. "I kid, I kid." LOL.

 

[ssky0078]

Bikie gangs don't shoot up schools. Kids have too easy access to these deadly weapons. And while they're all angry they don't think of the consequences or its too late.

I know some members of biker gangs. They don't shoot people and most of them outside of a fist fight have never been involved in a violent act. They do carry the guns as a means of self-defense, honoring the constitution and in some ways status (nicer guns, means deeper pockets). Some of these guys had served in the military for years and having a gun is part of them. The amount of harasment the biker guys get from the cops is amazing. When they are stopped they are always relieved of their sidearm, most often at gun point. Their gun magazine is ejected and a lot of times the police will perform an illegal search and seizure and take the round from the chamber that they will attempt to pull ballistics off and match to old casings from crime scenes.

The problem with kids is that it is like the story of Romeo & Juliet. If life doesn't go their way the think that, "ohhh no, my life is over, my life is ruined, FML." At which point the really special in a bad way individuals that can get access to weapons and perform their horrific acts will.

 

[Fazed]

I just hope those that say they keep guns for self defence are mentally ready for the responsibility of taking some ones life, it will stay with you forever.

 

[ssky0078]

I just hope those that say they keep guns for self defence are mentally ready for the responsibility of taking some ones life, it will stay with you forever.

No doubt. I've treated patients with PTSD due to war time trauma. In no way do I think the thoughts of what has happened ever goes away.

While living in Seattle we always prepared for the worse with canned food and water in case of a catastrophic earthquake. We pretty much never used it. But, I tell you what we had a couple times where the electricity was out and we were sure greatful we had been prepared. Nobody had to resort to cannabalism

 

[WARPTH]

I think we are all getting a little off topic. I believe this thread was originally started in regards to school shootings. I don't believe any of us aussies are trying to say ban guns all together. I hate how much Shit we have to go through to get one. And if you want a pistol you have to be part of a club and show 26 attendance's a year to keep your pistol license. That's Shit and i don't have time for it. We don't have any access to semi automatic rifles at all but in turn have learned to shoot a lever action or bolt action rifle just as quick. Back on topic though. i think if you look at statistics in relation to minors committing mass murder at schools in relation to percentage of population. the usa does have a problem there that needs looking at. as i said in a earlier post. maybe some regulation in storage laws. we have to have an approved gun safe with a separate lock and compartment for ammunition. were not saying take away your right to own. were saying it needs some tweaking.

 

[Camo]

It's funny to me that most of the rationalisation for being pro gun is fear and a right to bare arms.
It all sounds like propaganda to me.

Out of curiosity, those of you who said guns were a hobby, why guns and not knife throwing, bomb building or the art of strangulation?
All similar in the common denominator right...?
Is it that guns have been glorified and turned into a symbol of freedom and power? Maybe it's subconsciously cool to shoot guns and shit.

 

[bren]

I just hope those that say they keep guns for self defence are mentally ready for the responsibility of taking some ones life, it will stay with you forever.

With you here bro... There are many gun owners who aren't trained liked u and I.. They have their ideals, but not a true concept of what their weapons can do!!

 

[highoctane]

It's funny to me that most of the rationalisation for being pro gun is fear and a right to bare arms.
It all sounds like propaganda to me.

Out of curiosity, those of you who said guns were a hobby, why guns and not knife throwing, bomb building or the art of strangulation?
All similar in the common denominator right...?
Is it that guns have been glorified and turned into a symbol of freedom and power? Maybe it's subconsciously cool to shoot guns and shit.

Hit the nail on the head!