Guhl Ecu flash
- Thread starter Bam Bam
- Start date
master paper clip
New member
I just bough a pcv, I don't plan on stopping with my mods and it makes no sense to me to send my ecu out after each one and wait just to optimize my gains from them, when u can do it in like 10 minutes with pcv and even easier with auto tune, to each there own but this route just makes no sense to me
Banky2112
Just plain crazy...
Did you buy the ignition module as well to adjust the ridiculas ignition retarding? Have you removed your butterflies that restrict air until 5500 rpms because they are electronically controlled? I am doing it this way for a specific purpose. I want to see how well this bike performs...... If I can make 3 more hp, I will be matching what bam bam posted with his airboxmod mod and slip on pipe...... But I'm stock. Not everyone has the money to buy a filter,slip on,and Pcv.... If you only had 3 hundo you could get a loud slip on..... Or you could gain a few hp and unrestricted the bike. That's all I'm trying to prove. I have a slip on coming from a member here and I plan on doing a FULL bolt on build soon. I am just trying to really get a lot of data for this because I can't ever find where people Dyno things after every mod, everyone just does like 4 mods and Dynos. Am I making sense or am I rambling? 
Jacek3743
Member
I think the main point of this reflash is to remove restrictions from the ecu rather than remap your fuel which pcv does
Marthy
Member
Hey BamBam,
First tanks for all this good info. I'm presently working with a friend on tuning is FZ8. We did quite good so far but the flat spot you are talking about is all stock headers related, I can confirm that! We are using the PCV, A/T and LCD-200 for the data logger. Bike was on the dyno and the map was great. (use the TPS and Pressure map together... fix most of the on/off throttle you are talking about)
So we did the best we could with the stock headers & TB slip-on. Then swap that with my exhaust and a Viper can. That flat spot is gone! Almost right away. Pick up a lot at mid range too. My educated guess is the Cat. Even if you gut it out the change is pipe diameter create a high pressure area, restriction. So we are not quite done with the tune but will go back ont he dyno once all done to compare both exhaust set-up. So far the Marhty Exhaust is much better, just not sure how much yet!
But still $275.00 for a flash is quite cheap... and they are about 1/2 hrs away!
So basically if you want to fix the flat spot around 6K, change the exhaust.
Here's a little teaser pic... LOL
Exhaust should be available within few weeks. Just need to complete the map for a "stock bike"
Cool thanks yea after the flash it helped but looking at charts with aftermarket header there is alot to gain from a header.
Sohere, if I go with the option of not modding my stock fuel map, can I still use a pcv to upload my own map? and someone mentioned that previous maps won't work because ECU is not stock...? What do you mean by that?
if you dont have him change fueling you can use your map or if you have a map and send it with the ecu he can load it into your ecu.
Marthy
Member
Ya, on the dyno the HP was flat from 9800 to 11K @ 103HP. Like the bike was restricted some how. Same map and different exhaust the bike pick up right away at mid range and zip like crazy pass 7K. Looking forward to finish the tune ASAP... Can't wait!!!
The bike peak HP at 107 on one of the run but with the smoothing at 5 it was 103. Still pretty good but the exhaust was max out!
Yea it looks like the stock header is leaving almost 12 ftlbs on the table at 6k
if you dont mind me asking who are you going with.And if your looking for a cheap slip on if you look in my post i am running my stock can off my 2011 zx10 its a straight threw design because the cat was chambered. it bolted right up looks good and sounds amazing. you could probably pick one up cheap on ebay.
Marthy
Member
I've been using the Viper racing micro can 20 cm on the FZ6R, been the most popular for the last 2 years. I'm working on a new can that should be good to go by next week if I can get everything together soon. Full Carbon Fiber Marthy slip-on. On the picture above it's a picture of the stock modded FZ8 exhaust with a Viper can.
I've been modding exhaust for the FZ6R for about 2 years now and was looking for a new project. Since I think the FZ8 is a very nice bike other than the ugly retro side can...lol
Check out my website if you want
Marthy Motorcycle Exhaust Solution - Yamaha FZ6R 2009-13
Bang for the $$$ it doesn't get any better and cheaper than that!
Banky2112
Just plain crazy...
I was going to use guhlmotors but I'm gonna have to wait a bit.......
I was going to do it to show the stock improvements even though I plan on doing a Pcv later anyways. I didn't mind spending the money to hopefully give someone the data on if they only had enough cash for one mod if this was worth it or to just get a slip on or maybe a sprocket change.......
I was going to do it to show the stock improvements even though I plan on doing a Pcv later anyways. I didn't mind spending the money to hopefully give someone the data on if they only had enough cash for one mod if this was worth it or to just get a slip on or maybe a sprocket change.......
MotoZen
New member
I had no idea that Guhls was only 1 hour from my house. I may have to take a ride over there and get mine done very soon. I was going to get an exhaust, but if this mod makes that big of a difference, I may do this first. Thoughts?
Sent from my other favorite addiction (Galaxy S3) using Tapatalk.
Sent from my other favorite addiction (Galaxy S3) using Tapatalk.
Well the cool thing about Guhls is once you have had it flashed He will make any future changes you may want for free. I would at least gut the cat.
Below is a reply that member cyclone85 sent me after having his ecu flashed
Below is an excerpt of the letter I wrote to Guhl Motors. I basically plagiarized your post and told Don that I wanted the BAM BAM reflash job. I am an experienced rider, but this is my first inline 4 in a long time. My last bike was a v-twin (Zuk SFV 650) with said engine/tranny having its own quirky tendencies. In any event, I am picky with my cycles and the FZ8 was frustrating me with low RPM snatch, throttle sensitivity, restrictions, etc. I haven't put a ton of miles on it since the mod, however, this is clearly the best $300 I've spent so far. I'm not going to spend $1 more in trying to fix any residual quirkiness that might still exist in certain scenarios. Precious little is left to be done, because {IMO} the reflash fixed 90% of what was bugging; see list below.
1. Open sub-throttle more completely and more aggressively in all gears, thus eliminating the soft throttle response
2. Reduced engine braking effect
3. Add ignition timing throughout the RPM range
4. Raises rev limiter 500 RPMs
5. Removes top speed limiter
6. Utilize aggressive (too strong of an adjective?) ignition maps throughout the RPM Range, and map fuel tune into ECU thus eliminating the need for an aftermarket power commander.
I'm not sure exactly to what degree Guhl did with regard to the reflash, however, I'm satisfied. I'm worried that if I tried to do anymore, it might upset the nice balance I have now. Is *all* of the low RPM snatch gone; no -- but it is close. No performance bike with a good power to weight ratio is going to be smooth as a Civic rolling into a stop. We're talking about sport bikes that are designed to go *really fast* for longs periods of time. These bikes are not meant to be driven in parades where you're constantly feathering the clutch and throttle. I'm convinced that if you took a reflashed FZ8 to Utah and sped around the salt flats for 2-hours, you wouldn't complain about throttle snatch, or any other type of lurchy behavior.
Now, one thing the reflash did was really open up the bike in gears 1-3. My seat-of-the-pants review is that the bike now accelerates likes it's pissed off at something; this is what I wanted. The wheelie control and tire spin control corporate police have been eradicated with this modification. Good riddance. (OH -- my MPG didn't suffer either. Has this been your experience as well?)
Finally, back to the snatch/lurch. Again -- I classify this now as mostly resolved; I'm perfectly satisfied with the final result. Two things to keep in mind:
1. We're dealing with high performance machines with chains. Chains and sprockets can introduce drive line whip if you're not careful with throttle position and clutch engagement. (I've decided that with this particular machine -- you might as well start pulling in the clutch as you're rolling to a stop @ 2,500 RPMs. Anything less than that, and you're going to get some lash/snatch/jitter.
2. Just a theory, however, Yamaha is famous for supreme quality straight gut gears, right? I've done some research on the pros and cons of straight cut vs. helical, but one of this things about straight cut (besides kind of a whine noise) is a small amount of lash between gears. Suzuki didn't use straight cut gears on the SV so it took some getting use to when I bought the FZ8. Now, we know why Yamaha and other manufacturers use straight cut (there are clear advantages), but the bottom-line is that there are trade-offs with various styles of gear cuts.
As long as we have chains, sprockets, and straight cut gears -- you're never going to have a perfectly smooth rolling Civic stop! If I'm off base on 1 and 2 above, let me know.
In all -- I love this bike and there is *NO WAY* in hell I'm selling it at a loss to get a FUGLY FZ-09. I am not digging the motard looks of that machine, and the team that designed the instrument cluster committed the equivalent of a mortal sin. Unacceptable! Goofy looking colored wheels and a motard look -- yikes. The FZ8 is way better looking IMO, and with a reflashed ECU -- I bet there isn't 4% difference between the two bikes. I'll take a heavier bike with a better suspension any day for the stability it gives me and for the 'feel' it imparts going down the road. My SV was lighter than my FZ8, and it always felt a little unsettled at high speed. Not the FZ8....it's like a bullet train.
It may not be as fast and flickable as an FZ-09, but that doesn't mean it's inferior either. (I'll bet a 60 pounds lighter FZ-09 will have lash/snatch/jitter as well -- and probably a lot worse given the weight). Just wait for the reviews and picky owners to start chiming in after their love affair is over. Follow the FZ-09 forums to see if I'm right!
Below is an excerpt of the letter I wrote to Guhl Motors. I basically plagiarized your post and told Don that I wanted the BAM BAM reflash job. I am an experienced rider, but this is my first inline 4 in a long time. My last bike was a v-twin (Zuk SFV 650) with said engine/tranny having its own quirky tendencies. In any event, I am picky with my cycles and the FZ8 was frustrating me with low RPM snatch, throttle sensitivity, restrictions, etc. I haven't put a ton of miles on it since the mod, however, this is clearly the best $300 I've spent so far. I'm not going to spend $1 more in trying to fix any residual quirkiness that might still exist in certain scenarios. Precious little is left to be done, because {IMO} the reflash fixed 90% of what was bugging; see list below.
1. Open sub-throttle more completely and more aggressively in all gears, thus eliminating the soft throttle response
2. Reduced engine braking effect
3. Add ignition timing throughout the RPM range
4. Raises rev limiter 500 RPMs
5. Removes top speed limiter
6. Utilize aggressive (too strong of an adjective?) ignition maps throughout the RPM Range, and map fuel tune into ECU thus eliminating the need for an aftermarket power commander.
I'm not sure exactly to what degree Guhl did with regard to the reflash, however, I'm satisfied. I'm worried that if I tried to do anymore, it might upset the nice balance I have now. Is *all* of the low RPM snatch gone; no -- but it is close. No performance bike with a good power to weight ratio is going to be smooth as a Civic rolling into a stop. We're talking about sport bikes that are designed to go *really fast* for longs periods of time. These bikes are not meant to be driven in parades where you're constantly feathering the clutch and throttle. I'm convinced that if you took a reflashed FZ8 to Utah and sped around the salt flats for 2-hours, you wouldn't complain about throttle snatch, or any other type of lurchy behavior.
Now, one thing the reflash did was really open up the bike in gears 1-3. My seat-of-the-pants review is that the bike now accelerates likes it's pissed off at something; this is what I wanted. The wheelie control and tire spin control corporate police have been eradicated with this modification. Good riddance. (OH -- my MPG didn't suffer either. Has this been your experience as well?)
Finally, back to the snatch/lurch. Again -- I classify this now as mostly resolved; I'm perfectly satisfied with the final result. Two things to keep in mind:
1. We're dealing with high performance machines with chains. Chains and sprockets can introduce drive line whip if you're not careful with throttle position and clutch engagement. (I've decided that with this particular machine -- you might as well start pulling in the clutch as you're rolling to a stop @ 2,500 RPMs. Anything less than that, and you're going to get some lash/snatch/jitter.
2. Just a theory, however, Yamaha is famous for supreme quality straight gut gears, right? I've done some research on the pros and cons of straight cut vs. helical, but one of this things about straight cut (besides kind of a whine noise) is a small amount of lash between gears. Suzuki didn't use straight cut gears on the SV so it took some getting use to when I bought the FZ8. Now, we know why Yamaha and other manufacturers use straight cut (there are clear advantages), but the bottom-line is that there are trade-offs with various styles of gear cuts.
As long as we have chains, sprockets, and straight cut gears -- you're never going to have a perfectly smooth rolling Civic stop! If I'm off base on 1 and 2 above, let me know.
In all -- I love this bike and there is *NO WAY* in hell I'm selling it at a loss to get a FUGLY FZ-09. I am not digging the motard looks of that machine, and the team that designed the instrument cluster committed the equivalent of a mortal sin. Unacceptable! Goofy looking colored wheels and a motard look -- yikes. The FZ8 is way better looking IMO, and with a reflashed ECU -- I bet there isn't 4% difference between the two bikes. I'll take a heavier bike with a better suspension any day for the stability it gives me and for the 'feel' it imparts going down the road. My SV was lighter than my FZ8, and it always felt a little unsettled at high speed. Not the FZ8....it's like a bullet train.
It may not be as fast and flickable as an FZ-09, but that doesn't mean it's inferior either. (I'll bet a 60 pounds lighter FZ-09 will have lash/snatch/jitter as well -- and probably a lot worse given the weight). Just wait for the reviews and picky owners to start chiming in after their love affair is over. Follow the FZ-09 forums to see if I'm right!
I picked up my '12 FZ8 at a pretty good discount early this year. About a month later I heard all about the FZ9 coming out and I got pretty irritated 'cuz I figured, hey, this FZ9 is going to be at least one better than my FZ8...f**k, why didn't I hear about it before? I was pretty pissed when I looked at all the pictures of the Nine, read about the light weight, more power, etc etc etc. Then I got to thinking about the facts, the crazy low price, the bolt-together frame, the lay-down shock, and so on. All in all, I got the idea the FZ9 may not be any quantum leap, in fact it may be a step back in a lot of ways.
When I first got it, I upgraded the stock shock on my FZ8 to the basic Ohlins and went to a thicker fork oil right away (10wt) to smooth out the soft suspension, and put on a set of Pirellis, but that's it. Other than that it's bone stock. I have just under 6,000 miles on it. So when my dealer told me to swing by and demo the FZ9, I figured I was in a pretty good position to compare them. I put about 150 miles of canyons, freeways, and urban streets on my FZ8 and then rode straight to the dealer to check it out, so I had a great baseline to start from.
Day and night, folks, day and night. To address the complaints about the Nine's jerky throttle, yes, "B" mode smooths it out. "A" mode is wheelie mode, for experts only. "Std" is not much different than "A". As many have said, the suspension is soft. But not just soft. It is crazy soft, as sloppy as you can imagine. Just no composure or damping to speak of. The FZ8, with the Ohlins and fork oil upgrade, feels like a superbike in comparison, but even with the stock shock, the FZ8 was much better controlled, and more controllable and manageable, just using plain old body English.
On the FZ9, the rear squats excessively under acceleration, especially in "A" mode. The front brakes are adequate, but lack feel and the lever travel is more than on the FZ8. There is quite a bit of initial bite so they come in pretty strong, and with the light 414 lb. weight, this could surprise newer riders or someone coming off a bike with a more progressive front brake. Call them a bit hard to modulate, if you want.
The FZ9's riding position is straight-up dirtbike; it felt like a big, overgrown version of an open-class dual-sport, but with the way the power came on in "A"/"Std" modes, it reminded me of the glory days of the 2-stroke CR250 and CR500 motocrossers. Light, softly sprung, with massive power that takes a skilled wrist to control without getting into trouble. A real, genuine, rear-wheel steerer if ever there was one, that's the FZ9.
The engine was smooth for a triple, but not nearly as smooth as the inline four stuffed into the FZ8. Chalk that up to the inherent character of triples, the wide aluminium handlebars, and a lightweight frame (less vibration damping all round).
The Nine handles very easily in stop/go and slow/go urban settings, feeling like a bicycle compared to the heavier FZ8. It's very light on the bars once it gets moving and is noticeably lighter at a standstill. These are great qualities for city and urban riding. Given the Nine has nearly the same rake, trail, and wheelbase dimensions as the FZ8, this seemed strange.
The answer seems to be in two areas. The bike is of course lighter, but even though the specs say the FZ9's front/rear weight bias is the same as the FZ8, once the rider is seated on the bike, it appears that the rider's weight is distributed more to the rear than it is on the Nine. So the FZ9 seems to have a rearward weight bias as compared to the FZ8 in actual real-world riding. The squat on acceleration, the "vague" front end, and some reports of "headshake" seem to support this guess, too.
I have no opinion as to the looks of the Nine, I think that's in the eye of the beholder. To me it looks just fine. The instrument panel is hard to see and to read, another victim of the low retail price point. The rear brake, by the way, is very strong with lots of bite. Another thing to be careful of with a 414 lb. motorcycle.
After the demo of the FZ9, I feel like I very much lucked out in getting my FZ8. With the discount, I was able to spring for the Ohlins shock (pun completely intended) and still come out at a little less than what the new 2013 FZ8 would have cost me.
For my kind of riding, which ranges from tight canyons, to track days, to freeways and urban dicing, the FZ8 is the clear choice. The massive frame straight from the FZ1, with an engine that derives from the 2003 R1 and later FZ1, gives it a handling precision and high-speed stability that makes it great for just about everything one might want to tackle. Most of all it gives the rider a great deal of confidence, especially on rough pavement and when the speeds start to pick up. The bike is rock-solid through fast, 90-100 mph or better sweepers (save this sh*t for the track BTW) and carves low/medium-speed canyons darn quickly. It soaks up rough pavement pretty well with the Ohlins and would do all right for the occasional Iron Butt Saddlesore (1000 miles/24 hours) if pressed into service.
Bottom line is the FZ9 was designed to a price point and it shows. The FZ8 was put together from existing, high-quality components which were already proven and up to the task; it's essentially an FZ1 frame with an R1 engine, both of which are proven and hell-for-strong. It may be a bit heavier than we'd like for a pure sporting machine, but that weight translates into stability and rider confidence.
The FZ-09, IMHO, is very capable of writing some very large checks with its engine, and many, if not most, riders are going to find they have insufficient funds to back those checks unless they are very skilled. It's a pure hooligan machine in my view, with effortless wheelies in the first three gears and the ability to blast from stoplight to stoplight with the best of them.
So again, this is just my opinion, but for someone wanting a proven, balanced, broadly capable machine that inspires a lot of rider confidence, the FZ8 is a better choice. For those wanting a raw, rowdy, bucking bronco of a hooligan bike, the FZ9 is your bike.
It may well be that with serious suspension upgrades and an ECU reflash or PCV, the Nine will be tameable and a better all-rounder. But as delivered it's a beast.
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