Way cool review of FZ8!

[NoNine4me]

Some may have seen this before but I just found it...

Tested: Yamaha?s 2011 FZ8 and FAZER8 - Best of both worlds? - Motorcycle Sport and Leisure Magazine

Among other things this review confirms that the FZ8 is actually much more advanced than the -- gulp -- FZ-09.

Why?

-Uses 2006 version YZF-R1 engine, with four valve head, sleeved, lighter clutch and rotating parts among many other changes. The R1 engine, folks, is a racing engine, very compact, very potent. 120+ HP at the rear wheel is easy to get out of an FZ8 if you are so inclined.

-Does NOT use the same frame as the FZ1. Looks the same but the FZ8 frame is lightened and made thinner in various areas to achieve REAL tuned-flex. In other words Yamaha didn't just bolt in a sleeved-down FZ1 engine into an FZ1 frame, it gave the frame a specific re-engineering to match the bike's mission. Quote: "So the sleeved-down once-a-Superbike powerplant is solidly mounted at six points as a fully stressed member of the twin-spar alloy frame, which has a degree of balanced flex deliberately engineered in at strategic points."

Lots of other good info in that article but it looks to me like the FZ8 is starting to get "reborn" as far as its reputation; it's still sold worldwide so it is by no means an outdated motorcycle, having been introduced only in 2011. I would not be surprised if the FZ-09 is dropped after a couple of model years, the chassis is so bad along with the throttle mapping that it can't even compare with the FZ8 in the real world. Minimum two grand to fix the problems. Power? A reflash, slip-on, and K&N air filter will put you right up there or beyond the FZ-09 but with the stability in the fast turns and the comfort.

We'll probably see that triple come out in a new, much better chassis in 2016 but be prepared to pay for it.

Meanwhile my eye is on that new SR400!

 

[Woody146]

Yea..I knew all that about the r1 stuff..I just thought it was the pre plane motor..(what my dealer told me but who knows what he was smoking) awesome to know! When I go on rides to big biker spots..people ask me what my bike is..I explain it to them..then say they don't make it anymore..the looks I get are funny...I knew this bike was a beast!! Wouldn't trade it any day of the week!!

 

[Woody146]

Yea..I knew all that about the r1 stuff..I just thought it was the pre plane motor..(what my dealer told me but who knows what he was smoking) awesome to know! When I go on rides to big biker spots..people ask me what my bike is..I explain it to them..then say they don't make it anymore..the looks I get are funny...I knew this bike was a beast!! Wouldn't trade it any day of the week!!

And we are the class leader...who could pass that up!?

 

[Danger]

The cost in the US of the new 2011/12's was tough to beat also. $US 7000ish was a great deal.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[cmurder]

slap on a $50 rear fz1 shock and $250 for some FZ1 cartridges dropped into the oem fork tubes and bam, you got your self a dragon slaying (US129) bike !!! going next month to the Gap gonna get Wheeler to set up the suspension and tear up some roads ....


the 9 is ugly ,imho, and couldn't tell it was any faster then my 8 when i did a demo ride , it did feel more unstable

 

[MikeC]

That is quite an old article, published BEFORE the public had thoroughly rode and made a judgement about the FZ8. This article is great for owners, but public perception for FZ8, I feel, has pretty much marginalized the FZ8 as a bike that is jack of all trades and master of none.

I still love mine more than any sportbike in the world though - because riding for 2+ hours is cake on the 8. I've recently ridden a RC51, zx10r, cb600 f4i and all of these bikes...are torture on my body.

 

[pajkrubi]

It IS the pre cross plane engine. Otherwise it would have that beautiful thumping idle and sound like an old school muscle car with a good pipe on it like the cross plane R1 does.

Also as much as I love my 8 there's no way you're making 120+hp at the rear tire without serious, extensive, internal mods or spray. And even if we get to the power of a stock FZ-09 it's still MUCH lighter and STILL gonna smoke our bikes in acceleration. I don't care though because I think they're hideous and they're starting to get a lot of REAL world negative reviews for their junk frame and horrible suspension (the latter can be easily remedied though, just like our fairly crappy stock suspension).

I LOVE my 8 and think it's one of, if not the best looking naked bike out there but some of the info in this post is off.

 

[NoNine4me]

It IS the pre cross plane engine. Otherwise it would have that beautiful thumping idle and sound like an old school muscle car with a good pipe on it like the cross plane R1 does.

Also as much as I love my 8 there's no way you're making 120+hp at the rear tire without serious, extensive, internal mods or spray. And even if we get to the power of a stock FZ-09 it's still MUCH lighter and STILL gonna smoke our bikes in acceleration. I don't care though because I think they're hideous and they're starting to get a lot of REAL world negative reviews for their junk frame and horrible suspension (the latter can be easily remedied though, just like our fairly crappy stock suspension).

I LOVE my 8 and think it's one of, if not the best looking naked bike out there but some of the info in this post is off.

I love the sound of a conventional I4 idle, I suppose the cross-plane is considered exotic but it means nothing to me.

As far as the power potential of the FZ8, yes indeed it can pump out 120 without getting too deep into your pockets. Consider that a GSX-R 750 (which bike just won Cycle World's Middleweight Superbike shootout) makes 125-127 HP at the rear wheel, 148 claimed at the crank. That's a 750cc engine with 12.5:1 compression ratio. Our bike is a half-point lower in compression but has 30 more cc's. With the stock ECU, exhaust, that is to say bone stock, they reliably dyno out at 96 rwhp. Now you figure if you do a full exhaust system, high-flow air filter, and ECU reflash, you are going to get into the 110's without a lot of trouble.

One thing I did not realize is that this engine is very detuned, that is, it's deliberately tuned well below the HP it can comfortably make because of its market segment. I didn't dyno my bike before the ECU reflash but can say that it's much, much more powerful everywhere, it's really a completely different bike. I'm glad I did the Ohlins shock and fork oil because the sloppy stock suspension would not have handled the additional power.

Bear in mind the ECU reflash raises the redline to 12,000 and it pulls strong up to and past where the limiter kicks in. The revised ignition timing and fuel mapping, even with just a K&N air filter, do more for this bike than any pipe or rejetting ever did for any carbureted bike I ever owned.

Now to get much beyond 110, yes, you are going to be looking at cams and such, but here again, for someone who's good at this (I've done it myself on a couple of bikes) we are talking a couple of afternoons at most. The cams have to be removed to do a valve adjustment anyway, it's an easy swap.

You throw a set of R1 cams into this thing along with an exhaust, air filter, and ECU reflash and yes you can get 750-superbike class power out of it.

Let's not forget that the R1 engine on which this is based made 148 HP at the rear wheel at 12,400 RPM. We got the same engine, internals and whatnot are changed to suit the lessened displacement but the potential is there.

105-110 is not difficult to get at all.

Also speaking of the FZ-09, how many have actually ridden one? I have.

Not even close as far as handling, not in the same league at all. That bike is a budget bike and guys are throwing 2K at it to fix it and still not seeing what they wanted to get out of it.

Yes if you are worried about stoplight to stoplight, I suppose the FZ-09 might get there quicker; the FZ-09 has a chassis that simply is overwhelmed by its power. The FZ8 is just the opposite; its chassis was designed to handle 150 HP or more.

Funny thing, I am seeing more FZ8s on the road than every but hardly any FZ-09s.

 

[NoNine4me]

That is quite an old article, published BEFORE the public had thoroughly rode and made a judgement about the FZ8. This article is great for owners, but public perception for FZ8, I feel, has pretty much marginalized the FZ8 as a bike that is jack of all trades and master of none.

I still love mine more than any sportbike in the world though - because riding for 2+ hours is cake on the 8. I've recently ridden a RC51, zx10r, cb600 f4i and all of these bikes...are torture on my body.

Old it may be (if 2011 is really that long ago) but it's entirely accurate and has a lot of details that FZ-09 fans/owners probably don't want to hear. The -09 was touted as having "tuned flex" when in reality the FZ8 already had this but in a true superbike-class frame. The comment about the FZ8 being stable in fast turns but still agile enough for the tight stuff is spot-on. Yes, the FZ-09 does turn a little quicker, as well it should with the riding position of a dirtbike. However, who would like to volunteer to chase a skilled rider on an FZ8 out a 100-mph sweeper (on the racetrack) on an FZ-09? That thing has headshake like a quarter-horse with a catamount on its back. There's a video clip from one website showing just a little sample of the -09's headshake. Scary shit.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/116/1...ylist/2014-Yamaha-FZ-09-Comparison-Video.aspx

Watch the bars at 0:45. I don't need that shit at high speed. FZ8 don't do that.

 

[Banky2112]

Until you've had vmax head shake under Vboost........

I don't want to hear it lol

 

[Banky2112]

And just so everyone is aware....... The biggest numbers I've HEARD of, are 116hp, and that WAS with motor work.....

The biggest numbers I've SEEN are 106, and that was all bolt ons with a tune.

 

[Woody146]

I love the sound of a conventional I4 idle, I suppose the cross-plane is considered exotic but it means nothing to me.

As far as the power potential of the FZ8, yes indeed it can pump out 120 without getting too deep into your pockets. Consider that a GSX-R 750 (which bike just won Cycle World's Middleweight Superbike shootout) makes 125-127 HP at the rear wheel, 148 claimed at the crank. That's a 750cc engine with 12.5:1 compression ratio. Our bike is a half-point lower in compression but has 30 more cc's. With the stock ECU, exhaust, that is to say bone stock, they reliably dyno out at 96 rwhp. Now you figure if you do a full exhaust system, high-flow air filter, and ECU reflash, you are going to get into the 110's without a lot of trouble.

One thing I did not realize is that this engine is very detuned, that is, it's deliberately tuned well below the HP it can comfortably make because of its market segment. I didn't dyno my bike before the ECU reflash but can say that it's much, much more powerful everywhere, it's really a completely different bike. I'm glad I did the Ohlins shock and fork oil because the sloppy stock suspension would not have handled the additional power.

Bear in mind the ECU reflash raises the redline to 12,000 and it pulls strong up to and past where the limiter kicks in. The revised ignition timing and fuel mapping, even with just a K&N air filter, do more for this bike than any pipe or rejetting ever did for any carbureted bike I ever owned.

Now to get much beyond 110, yes, you are going to be looking at cams and such, but here again, for someone who's good at this (I've done it myself on a couple of bikes) we are talking a couple of afternoons at most. The cams have to be removed to do a valve adjustment anyway, it's an easy swap.

You throw a set of R1 cams into this thing along with an exhaust, air filter, and ECU reflash and yes you can get 750-superbike class power out of it.

Let's not forget that the R1 engine on which this is based made 148 HP at the rear wheel at 12,400 RPM. We got the same engine, internals and whatnot are changed to suit the lessened displacement but the potential is there.

105-110 is not difficult to get at all.

Also speaking of the FZ-09, how many have actually ridden one? I have.

Not even close as far as handling, not in the same league at all. That bike is a budget bike and guys are throwing 2K at it to fix it and still not seeing what they wanted to get out of it.

Yes if you are worried about stoplight to stoplight, I suppose the FZ-09 might get there quicker; the FZ-09 has a chassis that simply is overwhelmed by its power. The FZ8 is just the opposite; its chassis was designed to handle 150 HP or more.

Funny thing, I am seeing more FZ8s on the road than every but hardly any FZ-09s.

Haha funny you mention that...saw 3 fz8 in the last week...have seen 1 red fz09 today...only one I've EVER seen....

 

[NoNine4me]

And just so everyone is aware....... The biggest numbers I've HEARD of, are 116hp, and that WAS with motor work.....

The biggest numbers I've SEEN are 106, and that was all bolt ons with a tune.

Guy here on the forum is claiming 115. But cams are easy, that's simple top end work. However if a guy wanted to, he could do pistons and one or two sizes of overbore, cams, ECU, full exhaust, air filter...125 HP is no issue.

The bike has been massively detuned...if it was a 600 (which btw those get over 100 at the rear wheel but at 15K rpm or more) then it would be hard to get much more out of the bike. But the FZ8 started out as a 175 HP motor and was detuned. So to start the process of getting power back into it is pretty easy.

What will hold it back is the size of the throttle bodies and the engine displacement itself. But the chassis can easily handle the power with suspension upgrades; the reason the FZ8 can have a POS shock absorber is because the engine is so massively detuned. The FZ1 needs much better suspension to handle the power.

Right now I think my bike is just perfect with the ECU reflash. It's really wicked fast for any kind of street use; I can't even use it all, and I've got a late model GSX-R 750 as well which I can't use anywhere near all of that, either.

But the FZ8's got the potential headroom for an easy ten HP gain with "bolt-on" and software mods.

Another thing about the FZ8 is while we got a funky message from the motorcycle press that the FZ8 was "old news" and in with the -09 and all that nonsense, the -09 is a huge step backward in technology. It's got that bolt-together frame, same as used on the FZ6. Flaccid shocks and fork, mediocre brakes (listen to the motorcycleusa.com review) and that nice abrupt throttle response.

But the FZ8 is still sold worldwide and being as it only came out in 2011 it is hardly old technology. The GSX-R 750 which just won Cycle World's middleweight superbike shootout also came out in 2011. No one's talking about throwing it under the bus!

When we look at the weight, components, handling, and such of the FZ8 we really still have a very competitive high-performance standard.

 

[blues hurler]

I love my 13 Fazer. The addition of fully adjustable suspension just made a great bike even better.

 

[Banky2112]

Before everyone starts to throw the fz09 under the bus........ Oh wait, you all have


Yamaha needed a CHEAP, ECONOMICAL, NON TRACK ORIENTED bike, to TRY out a BRAND NEW ENGINE.......

Do you really think they would put it on a freakin super nice bike from the get go....... In case it failed horribly.

The MOTOR is the success story of that bike, test ride one..... If you haven't stop bashing them.

Btw, they are looking at using the sake triple cross plane motor for two new tenere models, and even supposedly the new r6

Now, that motor in an R6 would be to freakin die for!

It's simple, yamaha wanted to vet the motor before committing it to a bike platform using the publics opinion of the motor as a way to sell them better faster bikes in the future.

The r1 wouldn't have been so popular with the cross plane unless AMA was stomping everyone's a$$ in racing. So it was an easy sell to the public.


Okay........ I'm done now. :surrender:

 

[blues hurler]

The feulling will come with time and i'm sure will be a simple reflash for exisiting owners. They could have done better on the susp.

 

[NoNine4me]

Before everyone starts to throw the fz09 under the bus........ Oh wait, you all have


Yamaha needed a CHEAP, ECONOMICAL, NON TRACK ORIENTED bike, to TRY out a BRAND NEW ENGINE.......

Do you really think they would put it on a freakin super nice bike from the get go....... In case it failed horribly.

The MOTOR is the success story of that bike, test ride one..... If you haven't stop bashing them.

Btw, they are looking at using the sake triple cross plane motor for two new tenere models, and even supposedly the new r6

Now, that motor in an R6 would be to freakin die for!

It's simple, yamaha wanted to vet the motor before committing it to a bike platform using the publics opinion of the motor as a way to sell them better faster bikes in the future.

The r1 wouldn't have been so popular with the cross plane unless AMA was stomping everyone's a$$ in racing. So it was an easy sell to the public.


Okay........ I'm done now. :surrender:

I did test ride one and know at least four guys that have them. I've talked to all these guys and ridden with them and I have a some pretty good anecdotal info about how the bike works to add to my ride. I have ZERO issues with the engine, I bet it's awesome although it hasn't been out long enough to know for sure as far as reliability and tuning potential.

I get your reasoning but in truth Yamaha does not use the public to test its engines. The engine has been tested. The first 1998 YZF-R1 had a brand-new engine and it was an excellent motorcycle, which reigned supreme for some time. It was a complete package, well-designed, well-researched, and well-executed. The back story is here for anyone interested.

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/designcafe/en/about-bikes/supersport/index.aspx?view=article&id=442650

What I've said and will continue to say, which is exactly what the press has also said, (the honest press) is that the bike is sadly let down by its chassis, brakes, and suspension.

Put that motor in a decent chassis and I might buy it! But not until I've worn out my FZ8. We don't have to defend the FZ-09, it's a deeply flawed motorcycle and perhaps for the reasons you say, but a better chassis is needed and sooner rather than later.

 

[Banky2112]

Why does a super moto style bike need a better chassis, so wanna be track riders can put ohlins on it and go to a track day???

It's a city bike! You don't need all this fancy crap, you supposed to buy that bike for wheelies, and gas mileage.....

 

[Rhyno54]

I know this an old thread, Yamaha will be introducing the 2017 R6 with a crossplane engine, along with their FZ line

 

[Mikz86ta]

The current R1 is already built with a CP4 engine. And the FZ-10 is making its debut in the US soon....has a retuned CP4 (newer style cross plane) engine which is more torque and less top end.
The CP3 like the FZ09 has, is making its way into other bikes like the adventure bike FJ09 and cafe racer XSR900 (which is a restyled FZ09...same engine and frame)
So the CP3 engine is becoming well established and tweaked.
The new R1 CP4 is also starting to cross over to other bikes.
Not sure if that was answering your question