Sluggish when hot

[noodle]

Ive owned my 2012 FZ8 for almost a year now, put about 5600 miles on it so far. I have ridden it in cold weather and hot weather, but recently it seems to be getting more and more sluggish in warm/hot weather.

My concern is that there might be some issue that I do not know about and can fix it make it perform better in warmer weather. The oil level is a little above middle on the window, coolant is right in the middle as well.

It only happens when the bike stays between 190-210ish degrees. (i sometimes have to deal with stop and go traffic). Engine breaking seems to be more aggressive. If i let off the throttle, it will make me lunge forward more than normal. It feels like it has to work harder to maintain speed compared to what it did last year.

The reason this concerns me isnt just due to the heat, its because of the difference in how it performs in the heat compared to last year. Is it just because of the miles that have been put on it? Am i just getting more used to the bike?

what are normal operating temps? what are temps to concerned with?

sorry for the ramblings, hope it makes sense.

 

[Woody146]

Change your oil..put in a full synthetic

 

[Tix]

what are normal operating temps? what are temps to concerned with?

Each rider will have different operating temps. Your altitude and general environment will be different than most others.

I remember Virginia being Very humid during the summer. Combine that extra water vapor in the air with hot air (less 02 being pulled in as its not as tightly packed as cold air), and you will get some reduction in power.

The reverse of this is AZ where we have 120F but next to no humidity. We will still get a little less power vs winter time, but its nothing too bad.

This shouldn't be a massive difference though.

I agree with Woody, changing your oil and going Full Synth is a great idea. It was a night/day difference for my bike when I moved to T6 and then another revolution when I went to M1 4T.

Also consider the gas your using. AZ gas is junk. VA gas should be decent.
Some other forums (Subaru STi based) have reported reductions in power if it contains more ethanol (winter gas typically).

 

[OdinSon]

Throttle body sync?

 

[NoNine4me]

Ive owned my 2012 FZ8 for almost a year now, put about 5600 miles on it so far. I have ridden it in cold weather and hot weather, but recently it seems to be getting more and more sluggish in warm/hot weather.

My concern is that there might be some issue that I do not know about and can fix it make it perform better in warmer weather. The oil level is a little above middle on the window, coolant is right in the middle as well.

It only happens when the bike stays between 190-210ish degrees. (i sometimes have to deal with stop and go traffic). Engine breaking seems to be more aggressive. If i let off the throttle, it will make me lunge forward more than normal. It feels like it has to work harder to maintain speed compared to what it did last year.

The reason this concerns me isnt just due to the heat, its because of the difference in how it performs in the heat compared to last year. Is it just because of the miles that have been put on it? Am i just getting more used to the bike?

what are normal operating temps? what are temps to concerned with?

sorry for the ramblings, hope it makes sense.

I've noticed this too and it seems to be common to all modern ECU-controlled, EFI bikes. When the bike starts to get hot, the ignition will retard somewhat and engine braking will increase. I've noted it on other bikes, too.

I wouldn't be concerned about it; probably when the bike was new, it felt pretty quick, but now you're used to it, and you're sensitive to what it's doing.

The computer is trying to keep the bike cooler. Also you might take note what gas you use; I always use premium and the bike may be reading certain parameters and retarding timing based on regular pump gas. Some cars/bikes do this.

 

[Woody146]

I've noticed this too and it seems to be common to all modern ECU-controlled, EFI bikes. When the bike starts to get hot, the ignition will retard somewhat and engine braking will increase. I've noted it on other bikes, too.

I wouldn't be concerned about it; probably when the bike was new, it felt pretty quick, but now you're used to it, and you're sensitive to what it's doing.

The computer is trying to keep the bike cooler. Also you might take note what gas you use; I always use premium and the bike may be reading certain parameters and retarding timing based on regular pump gas. Some cars/bikes do this.

Premium, full synthetic changed every 3-5k...and y'all will love her like she is new again! And then down the line..reflash and it's a whole new bike!

 

[myklobe]

what are normal operating temps? what are temps to concerned with?

I live in Utah (where temps can get over 105F), and finally broke in my bike (1068 miles now). Up until 1000 miles, my bike never broke 200F. Now that it's broken in and I've changed the oil again with Mobil 1 4T Full Synthetic, it runs in the upwards of 210F in stop and go traffic, but I still have yet to find it sluggish.

I would say 2 things that have already been said. Do a Throttle Body sync (I just did mine and it made it seem way more responsive), and change the oil like Woody says. Use something for your temperature range, and use full synthetic.

Strangely enough, I've done 3 oil changes already to flush out all the crap in the motor when they built it, conventional, semi-synthetic, and now full synthetic, and the full synthetic makes it idle, rev, and ride much smoother than any of the others I've used. If those 2 things don't change the sluggishness, I'd take it to the dealer and have them do a diagnostics on it to make sure there isn't anything funky going on with the O2 or ECU (or something worst).

 

[noodle]

Wooody146: Have been running Mobile 1 4T full syn since 4k miles. What flash did you use?

Tix: I didnt think about the humidity being such a big factor.

OdinSon: It sounds like that might be a good place to start, ill look into how to do it.

NoNine4Me: I always use premium in the bike, it hasn't had a drop of anything else. I also try and use the same gas station to get the fuel from. I have been looking into the Guhl ECU flash, might have to actually do it sooner rather than later.

myklobe: Thanks for the details on how yours is running. I have the same oil in mine and it is operating in those same temps so that makes me feel a lot better. Ill have to look into the throttle body sync.


Thanks all for the responses!

 

[rail]

so this is a real phenomenon. Wasn't sure if it was my bike or just in my head!


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[9 Lives]

The throttle body sync only effects idle. Those 4 brass screws adjusts the amount of air each cylinder gets at idle only, as soon as you open the butterflies this system is out of the equation. As long as the engine is within its normal operating temperature the ECU will keep everything as per normal and with what your describing it is well within that range, whatever loss of power your feeling is not caused buy the ECU.

 

[Woody146]

Wooody146: Have been running Mobile 1 4T full syn since 4k miles. What flash did you use?

Tix: I didnt think about the humidity being such a big factor.

OdinSon: It sounds like that might be a good place to start, ill look into how to do it.

NoNine4Me: I always use premium in the bike, it hasn't had a drop of anything else. I also try and use the same gas station to get the fuel from. I have been looking into the Guhl ECU flash, might have to actually do it sooner rather than later.

myklobe: Thanks for the details on how yours is running. I have the same oil in mine and it is operating in those same temps so that makes me feel a lot better. Ill have to look into the throttle body sync.


Thanks all for the responses!

Turbojoetuned out of L.A. California...a bit..a lot actually more dialed in than flashtune and guhls

 

[MotoZen]

Turbojoetuned out of L.A. California...a bit..a lot actually more dialed in than flashtune and guhls

Have you tested flash tune or Guhl? I don't doubt that turbo Joe has a better flash, simply because he rides his own FZ8, but how do you know how much more dialed in it is?

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[Woody146]

Have you tested flash tune or Guhl? I don't doubt that turbo Joe has a better flash, simply because he rides his own FZ8, but how do you know how much more dialed in it is?

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Answered your own question there bud...he rides his own fz8..he has spent countless hours dyno ing and tuning his bike, not for resale to others, but to make a monster of a bike...for himself...he was then kind enough to share..I'm not knocking on guhls or flashtune..but the consensus is that joes is the shit

 

[Larry P]

Time for unpopular opinion puffin.

1.) If anybody noticed Yamaha has explicitly said in the manual that the bike runs safely and correctly at 87 octane. I've ran 87 for two years (15k miles) on my FZ8 and it's never missed a beat. You can buy 93+ but it's not doing anything for you.

2.) The difference between conventional oil and synthetic in this day and age is so slim it's not a big deal anymore. If anything, synthetics have been known to cause issues with some wet clutches.

As to the source of your problem I'm no expert but fortunately our bike is easy to disassemble and isn't loaded with electronics. Check over everything slowly. Spark plugs, fuilds, air filter, fuel filter, hose routing, etc. If you can't figure it out from there see a reliable mechanic and get their opinion. They probably won't charge you to try and diagnose an issue. Don't pay them to hold it at their shop and try to diagnose the issue. A knowledgeable mechanic should be able to tell what it is from riding it a few miles.

 

[MotoZen]

Answered your own question there bud...he rides his own fz8..he has spent countless hours dyno ing and tuning his bike, not for resale to others, but to make a monster of a bike...for himself...he was then kind enough to share..I'm not knocking on guhls or flashtune..but the consensus is that joes is the shit

I agree that his flash is probably better, I'm just curious how much better? I hope to get some dyno tuning done after I pay my bike off and get an exhaust. Would I be better off just getting it redone by turbo Joe instead?

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[MotoZen]

Time for unpopular opinion puffin.

1.) If anybody noticed Yamaha has explicitly said in the manual that the bike runs safely and correctly at 87 octane. I've ran 87 for two years (15k miles) on my FZ8 and it's never missed a beat. You can buy 93+ but it's not doing anything for you.

2.) The difference between conventional oil and synthetic in this day and age is so slim it's not a big deal anymore. If anything, synthetics have been known to cause issues with some wet clutches.

As to the source of your problem I'm no expert but fortunately our bike is easy to disassemble and isn't loaded with electronics. Check over everything slowly. Spark plugs, fuilds, air filter, fuel filter, hose routing, etc. If you can't figure it out from there see a reliable mechanic and get their opinion. They probably won't charge you to try and diagnose an issue. Don't pay them to hold it at their shop and try to diagnose the issue. A knowledgeable mechanic should be able to tell what it is from riding it a few miles.

1) in my opinion, fuel quality can also be a factor. I almost always use 87 but notice a difference, especially in my car and my older bike, between cheap gas and "better" gas.

2) I can't say much about the difference in the oil itself, but, and I'm not the first person to say this, there is significant improvement in my bike after putting in mobile 1 4t oil.

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[Woody146]

I agree that his flash is probably better, I'm just curious how much better? I hope to get some dyno tuning done after I pay my bike off and get an exhaust. Would I be better off just getting it redone by turbo Joe instead?

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That I'm not sure..I know he has been doing flashes for slip ons..but I don't know specific numbers on that tune..only the one that I have that is for full exhaust..no one has put up any numbers yet

As for the dyno...I have found one near me that will put it on and give me numbers for 50$...tuning would be much more expensive..plus..I do not have a power commander or juice box

 

[MotoZen]

That I'm not sure..I know he has been doing flashes for slip ons..but I don't know specific numbers on that tune..only the one that I have that is for full exhaust..no one has put up any numbers yet

As for the dyno...I have found one near me that will put it on and give me numbers for 50$...tuning would be much more expensive..plus..I do not have a power commander or juice box

I was figuring on getting a dyno run, reflashing the ecu based on the results, and then another dyno run to confirm results.

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