Rear suspension

[AndyS]

Andy, do you know why you adjust damping?
And I mean what to feel for and when to feel for it?

Yes. The spring preload controls the amount of sag or drop when I sit on my bike and ride it. Over road surfaces and through corners etc. The damping is what controls the rebound when the suspension travels. Basically, when you compress something ie the suspension, it has to "de compress". The speed and resistance that it de compresses with is what is controlled by the damping settings.
So, over rougher surfaces, or in turns, on and off the throttle, you can feel the bike 'bouncing back' through the seat.
I would like to be able to set that rebound myself, as the bike feels skittish in those conditions. Smooth roads, not so much, but anything a little off, or when I;m getting on it hard in the bends, not so hot. I know the front is a little soft, but I figure the rear is a cheap start. The tires are not the most confident enspiring either, so they will be changed as soon as I can affford it

 

[Bajaedition]

Yes. The spring preload controls the amount of sag or drop when I sit on my bike and ride it. Over road surfaces and through corners etc. The damping is what controls the rebound when the suspension travels. Basically, when you compress something ie the suspension, it has to "de compress". The speed and resistance that it de compresses with is what is controlled by the damping settings.
So, over rougher surfaces, or in turns, on and off the throttle, you can feel the bike 'bouncing back' through the seat.
I would like to be able to set that rebound myself, as the bike feels skittish in those conditions. Smooth roads, not so much, but anything a little off, or when I;m getting on it hard in the bends, not so hot. I know the front is a little soft, but I figure the rear is a cheap start. The tires are not the most confident enspiring either, so they will be changed as soon as I can affford it

explain skittish, because as of right now, you are not discribing the feeling or the reason to adjust your damping

 

[Woody146]

Found an fz1 shock for 50$ .....for 50$ I'm putting it on to see if there is a different...if so....no longer need for ttx...only need for Carrozzeria rims baby!

 

[pigdog]

i supported my bike using the side stand & a ratcheting cargo strap suspended to the carport support beam. i gave it a big giggle to make sure it was stable then slid my jack under the pipes for added safety. changing out the shock took about a half hour.

 

[Banky2112]

Yeah, I used an engine hoist and a round bar through where the passenger pegs bolt to the sub frame. Did it twice, works like a charm.

 

[Bajaedition]

OK Andy

Preload, only effects the way the bike sets with you on it, that is all. Adjusting the preload is so that you get a certain percentage of the weight on the front and on the rear, called ratio. this ratio is designed into the bike and the amount of sag you set the preload for keeps the ratio in the range needed to steer well.

Spring rate is what causes it to react over the road and in corners.

first we adjust the preload front and rear

on the rear suspension the next item we tune is spring rate. we get several springs of the same length and coils and different diameters (once close we can change coils and length) and get the bike so it goes into and exit turns correctly. What are we looking for?
well if the spring is to hard, the bike will turn in fine but will have traction troubles, wanting to buck on acceleration out of the curve. To soft and it does not want to turn in well it understeers and feels real light on turn in, accelerating out feels ok.

once we get that set we then can adjust the damping. what damping does is stops the spring from oscillation. If there was no shock then the spring will pogo stick, we have the shock to stop that. A suspension that is being worked real hard needs to adjust the damping. Trust me most cruisers will never need this. And Most SS bikes do not get pushed this hard. But if you think you feel pogosticking when the suspension is at full compression or extension then you need to adjust such. It will not need adjusting until it is at one end or the other, if you feel twitchyness any other time, it is the spring
You see a spring can only begin to oscillate when changing direction of travel. So until it hits the end of travel it will do on that stroke, either in or out, damping should have no effect on it, only at the spring rate should affect the rate it travels and how much. we use damping to make sure the spring is not trying to keep going back and forth, we use damping to transfer energy into heat in the shock oil so the spring will return to where it needs to be when it needs to. That spring is already working so many other forces it does not need to fight itself. to much damping and it hits the wall to early and wants to osculate, to little damping and it never hits the wall and is mushy. But remember, that is at full compression that you will feel that, not in the middle of the stroke. Mushy in the middle of the stroke is a spring issue.

once the rear is set we work on the front, which means we may have to do further work on the rear. We go out and run 2 or 3 laps and tell our mechanic what is up and he fiddles and hands us the bike and we go out for 3 more laps.

On the street, we have way to many situations coming at us to tune a bike that close, we should never be going into a corner so fast that we use all of the suspension and need to tune it that much as when we hit our sweepers or straits with a few bumps suddenly we feel like our bike wants to kill our kidneys.

If Yamaha had intended us to ride this bike that hard, I am sure the first years would have had an adjustable suspension, but they did not upgrade untill the 2013 model. I am sure that was because of reviews by journalist. I could get that bike handling as close to a R1 as possible if you wanted, but it would be cheaper to buy a R1 and strip off the faring.

the bikes lack of adjust-ability is because it was never intended to need such so by not having it, they could sell the bike for less.

 

[bikee4]

OK Andy

Preload, only effects the way the bike sets with you on it, that is all. Adjusting the preload is so that you get a certain percentage of the weight on the front and on the rear, called ratio. this ratio is designed into the bike and the amount of sag you set the preload for keeps the ratio in the range needed to steer well.

Spring rate is what causes it to react over the road and in corners.

first we adjust the preload front and rear

on the rear suspension the next item we tune is spring rate. we get several springs of the same length and coils and different diameters (once close we can change coils and length) and get the bike so it goes into and exit turns correctly. What are we looking for?
well if the spring is to hard, the bike will turn in fine but will have traction troubles, wanting to buck on acceleration out of the curve. To soft and it does not want to turn in well it understeers and feels real light on turn in, accelerating out feels ok.

once we get that set we then can adjust the damping. what damping does is stops the spring from oscillation. If there was no shock then the spring will pogo stick, we have the shock to stop that. A suspension that is being worked real hard needs to adjust the damping. Trust me most cruisers will never need this. And Most SS bikes do not get pushed this hard. But if you think you feel pogosticking when the suspension is at full compression or extension then you need to adjust such. It will not need adjusting until it is at one end or the other, if you feel twitchyness any other time, it is the spring
You see a spring can only begin to oscillate when changing direction of travel. So until it hits the end of travel it will do on that stroke, either in or out, damping should have no effect on it, only at the spring rate should affect the rate it travels and how much. we use damping to make sure the spring is not trying to keep going back and forth, we use damping to transfer energy into heat in the shock oil so the spring will return to where it needs to be when it needs to. That spring is already working so many other forces it does not need to fight itself. to much damping and it hits the wall to early and wants to osculate, to little damping and it never hits the wall and is mushy. But remember, that is at full compression that you will feel that, not in the middle of the stroke. Mushy in the middle of the stroke is a spring issue.

once the rear is set we work on the front, which means we may have to do further work on the rear. We go out and run 2 or 3 laps and tell our mechanic what is up and he fiddles and hands us the bike and we go out for 3 more laps.

On the street, we have way to many situations coming at us to tune a bike that close, we should never be going into a corner so fast that we use all of the suspension and need to tune it that much as when we hit our sweepers or straits with a few bumps suddenly we feel like our bike wants to kill our kidneys.

If Yamaha had intended us to ride this bike that hard, I am sure the first years would have had an adjustable suspension, but they did not upgrade untill the 2013 model. I am sure that was because of reviews by journalist. I could get that bike handling as close to a R1 as possible if you wanted, but it would be cheaper to buy a R1 and strip off the faring.

the bikes lack of adjust-ability is because it was never intended to need such so by not having it, they could sell the bike for less.

You lost me at "OK Andy"...

 

[MotoZen]

You lost me at "OK Andy"...

It's okay, you probably had a hard time hearing him from up on that horse of his.

Sent from my other favorite addiction (Galaxy S3) using Tapatalk.

 

[Banky2112]

It's okay, you probably had a hard time hearing him from up on that horse of his.

:eatcorn:

 

[Banky2112]

Maybe this will help......
Motorcycle Suspension Setup 101 : Yamaha R6 : R6 Forum

 

[pajkrubi]

It's okay, you probably had a hard time hearing him from up on that horse of his.

Sent from my other favorite addiction (Galaxy S3) using Tapatalk.

Quiet you fool... the gods have spoken!!!

 

[Bajaedition]

so you want me to keep quiet and let him spend money replacing a shock that is perfectly ok and he just needs to replace the spring around it?

 

[MotoZen]

so you want me to keep quiet and let him spend money replacing a shock that is perfectly ok and he just needs to replace the spring around it?

Firstly, yes. Some of us like to mod our bikes. So far, everyone that has replaced their shock has raved about it. Simply buying a used FZ1 shock has dramatically improved the ride quality according to petty much everyone that has done it. We may not all be racers like yourself, but we still want to mod and tweak to get what we want out of our bike. You're entitled to your opinion and factual information is always appreciated when delivered in a friendly useful manner. Which brings me to:

Secondly, and more importantly, I would really like for you to go back and read 90% of your posts as if you were someone other than yourself. You sound like an arrogant, condescending prick. At first, I thought it was just me but I get the feeling that other people feel that way as well. Most of us don't care about your past racing experience because we aren't racers and don't have access to a special mechanic to tune our bikes. That means that we get opinions online, and use those opinions to experiment through trial and error.

EDIT: I also don't care how Yamaha intended for me to ride my bike. It's MY bike (actually, it's still the bank's but that's not the point). Just because they didn't include adjustability, doesn't mean that we don't want or need it. They also restrict the bike to meet emissions standards, so i guess we shouldn't tune our mapping, change exhaust, change sprockets, etc either? If Yamaha intended for us to do it, then they would have offered it, right?

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[Bajaedition]

sorry you took it like that
I apologize

I reacted because I saw another person about to spend a ton of money on something not needed to do. That is not a bad shock, it only is a bad spring around it.

 

[MotoZen]

sorry you took it like that
I apologize

I reacted because I saw another person about to spend a ton of money on something not needed to do. That is not a bad shock, it only is a bad spring around it.

All I'm saying is that many of your posts come off with a holier-than-though attitude. You obviously know more than I do about riding. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

A used Fz1 shock for roughly $60 is usually cheaper than replacing the spring. Most people seem to like Race tech and their springs are $115. So as long as the FZ1 spring is in the ballpark for his weight, he gets a better spring and a shock with dampening adjustment for half the cost. Seems like a win-win to me.

Sent from my other favorite addiction (Galaxy S3) using Tapatalk.

 

[Bajaedition]

All I'm saying is that many of your posts come off with a holier-than-though attitude. You obviously know more than I do about riding. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

A used Fz1 shock for roughly $60 is usually cheaper than replacing the spring. Most people seem to like Race tech and their springs are $115. So as long as the FZ1 spring is in the ballpark for his weight, he gets a better spring and a shock with dampening adjustment for half the cost. Seems like a win-win to me.

Sent from my other favorite addiction (Galaxy S3) using Tapatalk.

so be it, I was wrong in assuming he wanted a new shock.

And about how you take my post, I feel that is a limitation of forum communication, because of the lack of visual cues we have in face to face conversation, it is easy to take words wrong. If we were in the same room you would probably be laughing at it not taking offense.

Take it as you please.

 

[bikee4]

so be it, I was wrong in assuming he wanted a new shock.

And about how you take my post, I feel that is a limitation of forum communication, because of the lack of visual cues we have in face to face conversation, it is easy to take words wrong. If we were in the same room you would probably be laughing at it not taking offense.

Take it as you please.

This is not about the forum format, more than it's about being self aware.
Now, YOU learned something today you should embrace, that instead of what you're about to reply.

 

[Woody146]

Got a lil spicy!?! I'm getting the fz1 rear shock..50$ big whoop....that's a handle of jd...I can deal without jd for a week lol....I'd rather spend 50 to see if I like it since I'm running mine on 8 right now...would rather be running around 5 which I've heard is the case with a fz1 shock....my biggest problem is not the rear suspension though...it is the front

I will stay neutral on this site regarding banter and shit talking...I'll save that for the vacation house

 

[pigdog]

i spent $900 on an elka shock reason being the bike was cheap enough to warrant suspension upgrades etc. that being said, after 9 months of ownership, im still playing around with the fork adjustments. currently the front preload is set in the middle of its adjustment. rebound is set so that it doesn't top out on takeoff & compression is set so it doesn't bottom out in a hard stop. as far as "its not what you say but how you say it", my wife tells me that all the time.

 

[Woody146]

i spent $900 on an elka shock reason being the bike was cheap enough to warrant suspension upgrades etc. that being said, after 9 months of ownership, im still playing around with the fork adjustments. currently the front preload is set in the middle of its adjustment. rebound is set so that it doesn't top out on takeoff & compression is set so it doesn't bottom out in a hard stop. as far as "its not what you say but how you say it", my wife tells me that all the time.

Niiice! Maybe you can answer me this....why does it need the external resivoir and quick adjust? That's on the ohlins too...can't figure out what it's really doing..and is it necessary...especially for street riding?