need help, Educate me please!

[n8kdfz8]

So I got that danmoto xg-1 exhaust on and i felt like i lost low end torqe. maybe i should get a PCV which everyone knows and talks about. Keep in mind I know very little about this PCV. do you hook ur computer to it and write a "map" to it and then plug it in to your bike or do you have to send it out to a tuning shop or something. IDK any help would be useful thanks

 

[cambo]

great question, and I second it...I'm in the same boat. I feel my bike performs similar to yours with the mivv double gun on (sluggish when I try to open it up). I'm exploring the use of a PCV to remedy this, but like you, I have no idea how the process works. In the meantime I threw my two brothers back on and I feel like it helped...the sluggishness is gone. Anyway, I'm interested to see what folks respond with here.

 

[master paper clip]

Adding a slip on Dosnt require a power commander, your ecu can adjust for the difference.... But any excuse to buy a power commander is a good excuse, if your gonna be modding your bike for power it's a must to take advantage of what u do to the bike

 

[n8kdfz8]

Adding a slip on Dosnt require a power commander, your ecu can adjust for the difference.... But any excuse to buy a power commander is a good excuse, if your gonna be modding your bike for power it's a must to take advantage of what u do to the bike

No offense, but to be 100% honest with you. i dont want to buy a $300 PCV module thingy. I just want a little bit of noise as i commute! And i read many opinions about slip ons and how the ecu will adjust and so on. also about not needing or having an issue with back pressure and so on. but as you can tell "cambo" even agrees that with our similiar near straight pipe exhaust our bike feels extremely sluggish, its not even just sluggish it feels like crap lol. in example my bike stock everything sixth gear high rpm on freeway i was going somewhere around 120+ mph. now with danmoto exhaust i was going nearly 98 mph close to redlining in sixth gear!!!! wth? maybe it has to do with my particular exhaust. maybe it feels completely diff with yoshimura or two bros slip on. i mean those companies obviously spent time dyno testing and etc or something to charge a customer $300+ for their product. and danmoto sells for $125 ??

 

[master paper clip]

No offense, but to be 100% honest with you. i dont want to buy a $300 PCV module thingy. I just want a little bit of noise as i commute! And i read many opinions about slip ons and how the ecu will adjust and so on. also about not needing or having an issue with back pressure and so on. but as you can tell "cambo" even agrees that with our similiar near straight pipe exhaust our bike feels extremely sluggish, its not even just sluggish it feels like crap lol. in example my bike stock everything sixth gear high rpm on freeway i was going somewhere around 120+ mph. now with danmoto exhaust i was going nearly 98 mph close to redlining in sixth gear!!!! wth? maybe it has to do with my particular exhaust. maybe it feels completely diff with yoshimura or two bros slip on. i mean those companies obviously spent time dyno testing and etc or something to charge a customer $300+ for their product. and danmoto sells for $125 ??

I ran all summer long with basically no exhaust and had zero problem, I didn't get my power commander till end of summer when I started doing all the mods. U have never needed to buy a power commander to use a slip on, could be as simple as a bad tank of gas. Or the exhaust design could have moved the power band higher up the rpm range, a lot of people on here have Dan Moto exhaust with no power commanders and haven't reported problems

 

[master paper clip]

If u had that drastic a lose in speed just from an exhaust swap there is something else going on with your bike, your speed would only be affected if u changed a sprocket or your gearing in your trans

 

[Glovik]

I have no idea about the issue at hand

BUT going and having your bike thrown on a DYNO is just like doing the power commander. But someone else tunes your bike up for you. Biggest benefit of the power commander is you can make it how YOU want it and can change it on the fly by hooking your laptop up.

At least thats the impression I'm under. Idk basically anything on building a map or anything like that, so I'm putting my yoshi on, changing sprockets, and doing my air filter all at the same time and then taking it straight to the dealer to have it tuned on the dyno.

I'm sure the dyno run isn't cheap but I'm sure I'd mess something up with the Power commander lol.

 

[n8kdfz8]

I ran all summer long with basically no exhaust and had zero problem, I didn't get my power commander till end of summer when I started doing all the mods. U have never needed to buy a power commander to use a slip on, could be as simple as a bad tank of gas. Or the exhaust design could have moved the power band higher up the rpm range, a lot of people on here have Dan Moto exhaust with no power commanders and haven't reported problems

i appreciate ur responses. seriously i do. as far as a bad tank of gas. im using the same full tank of gas that i had my stock exhaust with before i changed slip on. idk, wierd huh? i've only ridin 30 miles with this exhaust. so i might as well put the stock one back on. i know for sure nothings broken on the bike within 30 miles. but since u did mention u have a PCV. would you be so kind to give me a basis of how to use it? Curious about it.

 

[master paper clip]

i appreciate ur responses. seriously i do. as far as a bad tank of gas. im using the same full tank of gas that i had my stock exhaust with before i changed slip on. idk, wierd huh? i've only ridin 30 miles with this exhaust. so i might as well put the stock one back on. i know for sure nothings broken on the bike within 30 miles. but since u did mention u have a PCV. would you be so kind to give me a basis of how to use it? Curious about it.

Well then that is weird... May sound dumb but make sure nothing is lodged in the exhaust from shipping. Pcv is actually simple to just use plug it up to the bike directions are really easy, hook up te lap top and open the program... There website has a few maps but nothing special... Loading a map to te pcv is just as easy as opening a file on your computer. now map buildin i know nothing about, my map i got from a forum member with similar mods.

 

[dart1963]

Bike ecu will make some adjustments... PCV just gives you a bit more control...

Marthy has been doing maps for the 6R for a while now, he can give you pointers, as I don't know he's gotten to play with an FZ8 (or FZ1 for that fact) as he now has made exhausts for both. I'm running his Viper can on my 6R without a pcv and mostly, I just get a little popping on decel and rich at idle (can smell the unburnt fuel)... but as far as how the bike runs, it just seems a bit more responsive, def. louder which is nice, but I haven't noticed anything bad from it power wise.

Maybe run it though a couple of tanks of fuel though before changing back to let the ecu make it's adjustments, I don't think it happens instantly, then see what you think.

Marthy you out there? lol

 

[SeñorJack]

You will lose low end because you are losng back pressure, so the engine has a tough time reusing the unspent fuel, because it allows it to escape so freely.

When I was new to my bike I noticed this as well, when I switched over to my danmoto.

When I switched to my danmoto carbon gp, it felt a little goofy and about a week later or so my bikes ecu had began to make amends with the increased airfow. the pull from 5-7k and on should be pretty noticable in the "butt dyno". like whenever the accelerator pump engaged i believe in theory. but i noticed this for sure, if you dont after a few 100 miles, THEN something needs to be addressed.

Also putting in noise restrictors will return some low end

 

[Marthy]

Saying that you don't need a PCV with any engine or exhaust mod is like saying you've been smoking for 20 years and never had issues... still doesn't make it right in my opinion.

Bone stock the bikes are on the lean side to be able to pass EPA regulation. So saying that it's safe without a PCV it might be right... did anyone throw there bike on the dyno to double check this? The bike can run 14.5 to 15.0:1 all day long without blowing up. But the power is around 13.5:1. (min. recommended FR with E10 is 14.1:1... the old 14.7:1)

When I first build my exhaust for the FZ6R I did the test and confirm that a slightly restricted exhaust was safe... but 2 HP down on power. So this is why I offer the Viper can with DBKiller to run without a PCV.

But if you are looking for performance... you can't get out of it without spending the $$$ to do it right. If you have only $300.00 to spend... buy a PCV first.

This is my opinion and suggestion. Not trying to start a debate here but from the best of my knowledge...

 

[charris247]

I dont know if its all mental, but I felt a difference right away after putting my Yoshi R-77D on. There were also a bunch of factors that came into play. I had finished breaking in the bike so I was letting it go higher in the revs within each gear. I added a K&N air filter, and had not been riding for 3 months.

Either way, I am loving the performance right now. Sorry to hear you all are having issues with your Dan Moto's.

Good luck in getting it all sorted out.

 

[rcs530]

in example my bike stock everything sixth gear high rpm on freeway i was going somewhere around 120+ mph. now with danmoto exhaust i was going nearly 98 mph close to redlining in sixth gear!!!! wth? maybe it has to do with my particular exhaust. maybe it feels completely diff with yoshimura or two bros slip on.

That sounds like the clutch is slipping to me. An exhaust should not change speed in the same gear at the same rpm.

 

[Stangrrr]

That sounds like the clutch is slipping to me. An exhaust should not change speed in the same gear at the same rpm.

Ditto that..

I installed my Scorpion slip on, didn't notice any difference in low end power... since I'm still breaking it in, I haven't revved much past 6K, even when the stock pipe was on, so I can't comment about top end either way...

The catalytic should still provide a decent measure of back pressure...

 

[RoadKill]

That sounds like the clutch is slipping to me. An exhaust should not change speed in the same gear at the same rpm.

I would even say that an exhaust can not change the speed in the same gear.
That's just not possible.

 

[master paper clip]

Saying that you don't need a PCV with any engine or exhaust mod is like saying you've been smoking for 20 years and never had issues... still doesn't make it right in my opinion.

Bone stock the bikes are on the lean side to be able to pass EPA regulation. So saying that it's safe without a PCV it might be right... did anyone throw there bike on the dyno to double check this? The bike can run 14.5 to 15.0:1 all day long without blowing up. But the power is around 13.5:1. (min. recommended FR with E10 is 14.1:1... the old 14.7:1)

When I first build my exhaust for the FZ6R I did the test and confirm that a slightly restricted exhaust was safe... but 2 HP down on power. So this is why I offer the Viper can with DBKiller to run without a PCV.

But if you are looking for performance... you can't get out of it without spending the $$$ to do it right. If you have only $300.00 to spend... buy a PCV first.

This is my opinion and suggestion. Not trying to start a debate here but from the best of my knowledge...

I was reffering to not needing the power commander just for a slip on exhaust, your ecu can handle that, but after that ur gonna wanna buy one to take advantage of what your doing and keep the bike from runnin leaner then it does already

 

[socal]

exhaust systems are actually tuned for length to create a negative pressure zone so that fumes can be siphoned off. a straight through exhaust is actually considered a lengthening of the tube as where a resistance exhaust is not. because of this the power range will be changed to the higher rpm vs the lower hence a loss in torque or low end response. this however will not change your top speed per RPM. that number is based on gearing and slippage in the assemblies. If wondering more about exhausts look up how to build a muffler its interesting, also check your clutch and anything that could have been interfered with when putting on the muffler.

 

[SeñorJack]

exhaust systems are actually tuned for length to create a negative pressure zone so that fumes can be siphoned off. a straight through exhaust is actually considered a lengthening of the tube as where a resistance exhaust is not. because of this the power range will be changed to the higher rpm vs the lower hence a loss in torque or low end response. this however will not change your top speed per RPM. that number is based on gearing and slippage in the assemblies. If wondering more about exhausts look up how to build a muffler its interesting, also check your clutch and anything that could have been interfered with when putting on the muffler.

this is generally called negative back pressure. many stock exauhst also have positive backpressure. here is some good reading to understand the effect which robs your low end. its called scavenging, and by changing out your stock exhaust, your system is unable to scavenge as well. I don't think it has to be too tech. less back at idle or low rpms generally means less low end torque (this is when your engine "scavenges") but more high rpm power (your engine requires little to no "scavenging at higher rpms, it wants more free air flow). here is the link

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/exhaustScavenging.pdf

 

[Marthy]

this is generally called negative back pressure. many stock exauhst also have positive backpressure. here is some good reading to understand the effect which robs your low end. its called scavenging, and by changing out your stock exhaust, your system is unable to scavenge as well. I don't think it has to be too tech. less back at idle or low rpms generally means less low end torque (this is when your engine "scavenges") but more high rpm power (your engine requires little to no "scavenging at higher rpms, it wants more free air flow). here is the link

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/exhaustScavenging.pdf

Back pressure do influence the "scavenge effect" but most of the scavenge effect is determine by the amount of overlap you have. Little overlap help the bottom end torque but totally kill the top end. Intake valve closing will determine where the power band is. More overlap will scavenge more at top end and make your engine breath much better.

Don't forget that most of those "How engine work" come from years of experience from engine builder that put there knowledge on Internet. Most of that come from building small Chevy block and things like that. It is very hard to find valuable information on motorcycle.