K&N vs oem
- Thread starter BigD
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[]V[]addog
Member
I'm sure this has already been discussed as I'm useless with search
Anyone experienced more proven hp with these? noticed a diff over oem?
worth it over just changing stock more regularly?
I thought about getting one of these for a while.
My 2 cents.... Wait until you need an actual filter change and do it then.
I think by itself the K&N does next to nothing, but if you modify the airbox and get fuel management... then it can help.
I won;t be modding my airbox so... I'm not going to bother
Slip on a Juice box pro are the only two performance upgrades I'm doing... if you can call it that. I wanted it more to smooth out the power delivery.
HeresMyMind
New member
I am waiting until winter, i plan on doing the airbox mod, K&N and Ghuls flash, but I'd rather wait until it can all be done at once, with 0 worries about downtime since it is winter.
I have heard good things, but i think if anything it wont gain Horsepower, just free some up, just like intakes on cars.
-B
I have heard good things, but i think if anything it wont gain Horsepower, just free some up, just like intakes on cars.
-B
Yeah, for sure it flows better. I had my bike reflashed so, without a dyno run to prove it, I am guessing Guhls made the appropriate mods to the ECU to account for the slightly increased flow of the K&N. It runs great, much better than stock.
Bajaedition
New member
bang for the buck?
with out also a repipe and possibly a remap, the K&N will do little
now repipe and remap with the K&N and you will see its benefit go way up.
the problem is that tuning an engine is not a one stop affair, you need to carry the tuning through all areas that need it. So a simple air filter that has the possibility to move more air, can not move that air if the pipe can not move it also. And then you want the computer to be able to take advantage of that and deliver more fuel and advance the timing where needed.
Kind of like you see a Rickey Racer in his civic with a great sounding pipe on it but he has no torque and is actually slower off the line. Yea he destroyed his back pressure and now his fuel is flowing out of the cylinder during valve overlap.
It is best to buy a proven system and install it all at once unless you have access to a dyno that you can use whenever you are fiddling
with out also a repipe and possibly a remap, the K&N will do little
now repipe and remap with the K&N and you will see its benefit go way up.
the problem is that tuning an engine is not a one stop affair, you need to carry the tuning through all areas that need it. So a simple air filter that has the possibility to move more air, can not move that air if the pipe can not move it also. And then you want the computer to be able to take advantage of that and deliver more fuel and advance the timing where needed.
Kind of like you see a Rickey Racer in his civic with a great sounding pipe on it but he has no torque and is actually slower off the line. Yea he destroyed his back pressure and now his fuel is flowing out of the cylinder during valve overlap.
It is best to buy a proven system and install it all at once unless you have access to a dyno that you can use whenever you are fiddling
9 Lives
New member
From what I have seen the biggest gain to be had by any of this, air box mod, ECU flash, PCV, exhaust and the list goes on, is the smoothing out of the power curve. According to all of the dyno sheets I have seen there is no ground breaking HP or torque gains to be had, maybe 5 - 7 Hp at best which is noticeable but not holy crap worthy. To get that 5 - 7 hp your looking at $1500, you be the judge on whether is worth it or not for you. Unfortunately if you looking for a cheap way to get big gains in the HP and torque department I don't think anyone has figured that out yet, at least not that I have heard of. There is a guy on the other forum who put R1 cams in his FZ8 along with numerous other mods and his HP and Torque gains are defiantly holy crap worthy.
Bajaedition
New member
that is it 9 Lives, you have to do a lot, not just a single item.
Personally, I have yet to find the end of the performance potential of the FZ8 in factory form. I love the flat torque curve and 100 ponies is good enough, When do you actually use all of those on the street? and as far as a track bike, there is the FZ1 if you want naked and Yamaha, much more engine for very little more cost compared to what it would take to get the FZ8 there.
I was taught that you can only get so much from an turnip before you have to switch to a bigger turnip. We have a 779 cc bike, the 221 more ccs of the 1000 make a lot more power before having to modify for less cost of the mods to get us there. So what is the benefit?
I competed in Land Speed Racing for years and know that if you want to go so much faster you have to jump up in engine class, that squeezing a few more MPH from engines takes major money.
Our bike in factor form is not tuned for max HP, in fact it is tuned with a flat torque curve in mind at the expense of max HP. Honestly I would think that major head and valve work, with new cams would be warranted for great HP gains and then you are also looking at the limit of the 779 ccs we have when a Fz1 has so much more potential with a much better suspension.
Personally, I have yet to find the end of the performance potential of the FZ8 in factory form. I love the flat torque curve and 100 ponies is good enough, When do you actually use all of those on the street? and as far as a track bike, there is the FZ1 if you want naked and Yamaha, much more engine for very little more cost compared to what it would take to get the FZ8 there.
I was taught that you can only get so much from an turnip before you have to switch to a bigger turnip. We have a 779 cc bike, the 221 more ccs of the 1000 make a lot more power before having to modify for less cost of the mods to get us there. So what is the benefit?
I competed in Land Speed Racing for years and know that if you want to go so much faster you have to jump up in engine class, that squeezing a few more MPH from engines takes major money.
Our bike in factor form is not tuned for max HP, in fact it is tuned with a flat torque curve in mind at the expense of max HP. Honestly I would think that major head and valve work, with new cams would be warranted for great HP gains and then you are also looking at the limit of the 779 ccs we have when a Fz1 has so much more potential with a much better suspension.
If you have a local performance shop with a K&N air filter demo setup, go check it out (or check on YouTube, I'm sure they have something there). There are plenty of benefits, but not a huge HP gain. This isn't a power adder like reflashing/remapping/modifying the engine/electronics. Think of it more like it allows you to get more HP with other modifications (like said before).
These are the things I love about the K&N (or any flavor of non-paper oil/cotton air filter):
1. You will get significantly more unrestricted air flow (see demo). Not necessarily
2. Reusable throughout the life of the vehicle (so if you have to replace a normal filter, might as well pay a little more and never have to buy another one again).
3. Oil / cotton catches more dirt / particles than paper and won't clog when "dirty".
4. Each K&N air filter comes with at least 2 stickers so you can show everyone that you are a racer now! (JK, had to throw that out there).
Seriously, please don't put the K&N sticker on your bike. Seriously
Really, these are the most important things to me whether I get more HP or not, I feel better about the oil / cotton filtration. #2 is what sells me when replacing my air filter. I HATE dropping $40-$60 on a filter that gets dirty in no time and I have to replace it again
These are the things I love about the K&N (or any flavor of non-paper oil/cotton air filter):
1. You will get significantly more unrestricted air flow (see demo). Not necessarily
2. Reusable throughout the life of the vehicle (so if you have to replace a normal filter, might as well pay a little more and never have to buy another one again).
3. Oil / cotton catches more dirt / particles than paper and won't clog when "dirty".
4. Each K&N air filter comes with at least 2 stickers so you can show everyone that you are a racer now! (JK, had to throw that out there).
Seriously, please don't put the K&N sticker on your bike. Seriously
Really, these are the most important things to me whether I get more HP or not, I feel better about the oil / cotton filtration. #2 is what sells me when replacing my air filter. I HATE dropping $40-$60 on a filter that gets dirty in no time and I have to replace it again
None of the above, I'd guess. The stock filters tend to be slightly more restrictive, but also more effective. K&N filters it is well known that they don't filter as well as stock, especially when they're clean. Their filtering effectiveness actually increases as they get dirtier. They do flow air a little better, but personally I wouldn't bother.
Here's just one webpage explaining this, with actual testing having been performed: K&N Air Filter Review - Debunking the Myths (and why OEM is better)
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Bajaedition
New member
great post Fazer 8
that is very important information when deciding about mods.
that is very important information when deciding about mods.
Bajaedition
New member
I was an UNI fanatic for years, but with the modern airbox I think K&N has the market now.
When I built my Sportster I had to do so much porting and head work to get hte air to flow even the intake manifold needed major weeding out. so that they moved all the air the new valves and filter/pipe combo had potential for. It reminded me so much about how there is always another system that needs work and performance is rarely just bolt on. Look at the ECU tampering we have to do.
K&N has the market now.When I built my Sportster I had to do so much porting and head work to get hte air to flow even the intake manifold needed major weeding out. so that they moved all the air the new valves and filter/pipe combo had potential for. It reminded me so much about how there is always another system that needs work and performance is rarely just bolt on. Look at the ECU tampering we have to do.
9 Lives
New member
I was an UNI fanatic for years, but with the modern airbox I think
When I built my Sportster I had to do so much porting and head work to get hte air to flow even the intake manifold needed major weeding out. so that they moved all the air the new valves and filter/pipe combo had potential for. It reminded me so much about how there is always another system that needs work and performance is rarely just bolt on. Look at the ECU tampering we have to do.
Yip, Right now I think the best "bang for the buck" is the ECU flash for a quick bolt on that will see some respectable difference in the way the bike applies the power more that the peek power it produces. For me, I love to tinker myself so the PCV is best for me, not that I am looking to make this a track monster, just like to tinker.