Flash tune vs. guhls

[Woody146]

Are they doing the EXACT same thing? Need ecu mod very soon..torn between which to go with..please help sway me in a direction lol

 

[frogger]

the guhls seems to be more indepth from what I have read. I still don't understand it all. is the ecu flash done in conjunction with a separate unit for fuel tuning?

 

[MotoZen]

I've sort of been wondering the same thing. My ecu is out as of this afternoon. I think I'm going to guhl's based on the fact that they are close to me and I've found more specific information about what their flash does. The other forum pretty much prefers flash tune and this forum seems to prefer guhl's. $175 is a big cost difference if you only have basic mods though.

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[Woody146]

the guhls seems to be more indepth from what I have read. I still don't understand it all. is the ecu flash done in conjunction with a separate unit for fuel tuning?

In conjunction with power commander or juice box pro or bazzazz...? No....the reflash renders all of that useless..well...according to some members that have had it...I guess they had to dyno a fz8 at some point for a starting point and then go off that...? I'm not 100% either..

 

[Woody146]

I've sort of been wondering the same thing. My ecu is out as of this afternoon. I think I'm going to guhl's based on the fact that they are close to me and I've found more specific information about what their flash does. The other forum pretty much prefers flash tune and this forum seems to prefer guhl's. $175 is a big cost difference if you only have basic mods though.

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Yea..I'm kind of in the opposite boat as you..I'm close to flash tune..without talking to both companies directly..and going based only off what I've read and websites..I would choose guhls....but I don't have enough info about flash tune and everyone kind of keeps it hush hush...and I hands down want the best product I can put in my bike..guhls is twice the price...and I want the best possible tune for all my mods and future mods (only exhaust lol) possibly air box mod..skeptical about that one

 

[Bam Bam]

In conjunction with power commander or juice box pro or bazzazz...? No....the reflash renders all of that useless..well...according to some members that have had it...I guess they had to dyno a fz8 at some point for a starting point and then go off that...? I'm not 100% either..

If you read the entire guhl flash the flash was developed at guhls on his dyno with my bike. There is also an attached video of the bike on the dyno with dyno charts. So with that said he can change the fuel tables in the factory ecu to accommodate the mods on the bike.

 

[GNoiZZ]

I have the flash-tune with a modded flash version from turbojoetuned (he owns a dyno/tuning shop in L.A..and made this tune for his FZ8) and my bike is flying with that tune( think his had around 101whp with that tune).

I think both are the same, and $100 compared to $275 ...hmm set another $100 on top and you can buy the flash-tune interface which allows you to reflash your ecu at home or put the bike on a dyno and get a custom flash, without shipping the ecu across the country.

But quit easy, go to the flash-tune site and download the flash-tune software, now you will be able to see by yourself what a flash does and what you can change ;-).


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B51gp9ugc-0]Dyno run. Kawasaki ZX636 - YouTube[/ame]

his FZ8

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2FQrQpXHI0]riding my fz8 behind zx 636 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[GNoiZZ]

If you read the entire guhl flash the flash was developed at guhls on his dyno with my bike. There is also an attached video of the bike on the dyno with dyno charts. So with that said he can change the fuel tables in the factory ecu to accommodate the mods on the bike.

With the flash-tune interface you can do all that fun stuff by yourself (and way more)...for a couple $ more....or set your bike on the closest dyno and get a custom flash(guess the most dyno shops know flash tune by now).

some screenshots of the software...

 

[Bam Bam]

What kind of gains did you see? Do you have any dyno charts to show numbers compared to guhls. All dynos read different so a before and after to truly show the gains

 

[Banky2112]

If I were you, Woody, I would go with flash tune......
You have access to them close by.

Jus because I got a reflash doesn't mean I'm stopping there! Don will Dyno my bike before it's over with, because that's optimal.


Have the bike dyno'd. By the flash tune guy. (For consistency)
Then have it flash tuned. By the flash tune guy. (For consistency)
Then have it customized at his shop!By the flash tune guy. (For consistency)

I say this this FOR SCIENCE! Lol

You could literally write an entire thread like bam bam did. And if it doesn't work out too well, by this time next year youll be like me and def know that you wanted something else.....(from Pcv to guhls)

 

[Woody146]

I'm nowhere near the flash tune guy...only in the same state...so...I'm shipping it somewhere..I need to find someone with a dyno and that is good with bikes near me..haven't found one yet....trying to read up on both and get opinions before I decide...looking for the best possible tune for my bike.

 

[GNoiZZ]

What kind of gains did you see? Do you have any dyno charts to show numbers compared to guhls. All dynos read different so a before and after to truly show the gains

I didn't put my bike on a dyno....... but compared to before she fly's. Guess when i find one close by i could make a dyno run.

 

[NoNine4me]

Are they doing the EXACT same thing? Need ecu mod very soon..torn between which to go with..please help sway me in a direction lol

Not necessarily. To be fair one would need to look into the specific changes each make to the ignition and fueling maps, and dyno test each one for comparison. After having put several hundred pretty aggressive miles on mine with the Guhls, I can say that for them to have done so much with the reflash means Guhls had to have done a close analysis of the engine mechanics. That is, I feel they actually looked at the cam timing, lift and duration, throttle body size, engine compression ratio, and other aspects of the engine design in order to calculate just how much performance they could get away with, and where. The ignition timing has clearly been advanced to a significant degree but in a very calculated way, blended with the fueling and electronic (secondary) butterfly opening. I didn't ask but I think the bike do better with premium fuel after the reflash. I always use it anyway. I can roll the throttle wide open and absolutely no detonation with 91 octane and hard acceleration.

Only way to know how to make it work that well is through the science of high-performance tuning. Guhls has been doing that kind of tuning for true race vehicles for years so they know exactly how to do it.

Every time I ride my bike I am still stunned at not only how much better and more fun it is to ride, but how much faster it is everywhere.

It is truly a different motorcycle after the Guhls ECU reflash.

I don't say that another company might be able to do the same thing, but I can definitely vouch that I think Guhls got every bit of added performance and driveability out of my FZ8 that was possible given the only mod was a K&N air filter. That takes knowledge and experience.

 

[MotoZen]

I think that someone should ship me their ecu after flash tune so that I can take it to guhl's, get it dyno'd, have them flash it and re-dyno to compare.

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[GNoiZZ]

Not necessarily. To be fair one would need to look into the specific changes each make to the ignition and fueling maps, and dyno test each one for comparison. After having put several hundred pretty aggressive miles on mine with the Guhls, I can say that for them to have done so much with the reflash means Guhls had to have done a close analysis of the engine mechanics. That is, I feel they actually looked at the cam timing, lift and duration, throttle body size, engine compression ratio, and other aspects of the engine design in order to calculate just how much performance they could get away with, and where. The ignition timing has clearly been advanced to a significant degree but in a very calculated way, blended with the fueling and electronic (secondary) butterfly opening. I didn't ask but I think the bike do better with premium fuel after the reflash. I always use it anyway. I can roll the throttle wide open and absolutely no detonation with 91 octane and hard acceleration.

Only way to know how to make it work that well is through the science of high-performance tuning. Guhls has been doing that kind of tuning for true race vehicles for years so they know exactly how to do it.

Every time I ride my bike I am still stunned at not only how much better and more fun it is to ride, but how much faster it is everywhere.

It is truly a different motorcycle after the Guhls ECU reflash.

I don't say that another company might be able to do the same thing, but I can definitely vouch that I think Guhls got every bit of added performance and driveability out of my FZ8 that was possible given the only mod was a K&N air filter. That takes knowledge and experience.

When you look at the flash tune data then i doubt that " the ignition timing has clearly been advanced to a "significant degree" and that flash is an pump 91+ tune. Take a look at the data's from flash-tune ( you can see actually every change they made) and the big science becomes smaller.
As far i know the main thing which looked the FZ8 are the secondary throttle plates... and no mystic thing some tuner unlocked.

Besides i am pretty sure that guhl makes a good tune....would be out of business when not....i just don't see why i should pay for let's say -/+1-2 hp $170 more for a basic tune?

 

[frogger]

so im guessing my best option is to get a power commander or something. I basicly want to cut down my flies and adjust fueling so I don't run lean. I have airbox mod ais and exhaust mod. it seems atm when I take off the flies are restricting the airflow until about 2.5 to 3k rpm. after that it pulls smooth and before that is hesitates.

I thought people were saying you could take your ecu to a Yamaha dealer and get it flashed. I ride every day here in aus and couldn't have my ecu gone for even a week.

 

[NoNine4me]

so im guessing my best option is to get a power commander or something. I basicly want to cut down my flies and adjust fueling so I don't run lean. I have airbox mod ais and exhaust mod. it seems atm when I take off the flies are restricting the airflow until about 2.5 to 3k rpm. after that it pulls smooth and before that is hesitates.

I thought people were saying you could take your ecu to a Yamaha dealer and get it flashed. I ride every day here in aus and couldn't have my ecu gone for even a week.

Yamaha will absolutely not reflash your ECU. They can't, it's not an "approved" procedure.

A power commander is much more expensive than an ECU reflash. All these problems people keep talking about don't exist in a properly set-up and tuned motorcycle.

It's the same old thing as in the past; punch a bunch of holes in the air filter, gut the cat, remove the secondary butterflies, put on a pipe and power commander, and hope for the best.

That stuff doesn't work, engines are designed and tuned based on science.

A good number of us owners who have had the reflash have posted about the excellent results. We are not making this stuff up, but to each his own. I just want a bike that runs great and I got it through the Guhls reflash. I was hesitant at first but went for it and as I and many have reported back to this forum, the difference is really amazing.

ECU-based tuning is not the future, it's here now, and the ECU is the place to start, rather than with hardware such as pipes. It's the "heart" of the bike and controls everything about the way it runs. If you make a change to the hardware the ECU needs to be informed, so to speak.

Yes, you can map fueling with a Power Commander but you can't change the ignition timing, remove any factory restrictions, or change engine braking or the way the secondaries behave.

All that can be done in the ECU.

 

[MotoZen]

so im guessing my best option is to get a power commander or something. I basicly want to cut down my flies and adjust fueling so I don't run lean. I have airbox mod ais and exhaust mod. it seems atm when I take off the flies are restricting the airflow until about 2.5 to 3k rpm. after that it pulls smooth and before that is hesitates.

I thought people were saying you could take your ecu to a Yamaha dealer and get it flashed. I ride every day here in aus and couldn't have my ecu gone for even a week.

I talked with Don from guhl's again this morning and he was very informative. He did mention that there are small changes from Yamaha in the programming of the ecu and that he could, in theory, flash them to an ecu. He also said that he wouldn't agree with it, mind you, because it wouldn't have much benefit and he wouldn't really want to charge someone for it. Based on that, it may be possible that a dealer would flash a newer model year program to it, but I'd be surprised if a dealer would alter the program in any way comparable to a true reflash. I'm mostly just making a semi-educated guess though.

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[MotoZen]

I had a long conversation with Don from Guhl's this morning and I flat out asked him why there was such a big difference in price between him and flash tune and even ecuunleashed. He basically went into how they purchase a brand new ecu for any bike that they are going to do and physically tear it apart in order to do their R&D. Because of this, it takes them a long time to recoup their investment.

He also told me that his partner (also his software developer) was one of the original his to start having ecus for this purpose. They were supposedly one of the original shops to start flashing. They also keep new ecu s on hand just in case a customer has a problem, they can fully support it.

I haven't talked to anyone from flash tune, but based on my conversations with him, I have no problem giving him my business. I'm planning to take a long lunch later this week and head over with my ecu if anyone is interested in joining me.

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[9 Lives]

Yes, you can map fueling with a Power Commander but you can't change the ignition timing, remove any factory restrictions, or change engine braking or the way the secondaries behave.

All that can be done in the ECU.

Not true, ignition timing can be adjusted with the ignition module add on and engine braking can be lessened buy adding more fuel in parts of the map. The reason the engine brakes so hard is because the ECU really cuts back the fuel during de-acceleration if you add a bit of fuel in the de-accel part of the map the engine braking is lessened. So really the only thing the flash can do that the PCV can't is the rate the secondary flies open and adjusting/removing the rev limiter which is useless anyway. Yes its expensive but its for those of us who like to tinker ourselves and learn how to tune on our own. The PCV/JBP ect is the answer for some and the reflash is good for others depending on their situation. If I had know about flash tune before I bought the PCV, I would have went that way.