Do it yourself tuning PCV vs ECU flash

[9 Lives]

First let me explain what I am attempting to do, I want to figure out the best way to tune this bike myself. This bike was going to be my next project, I have built a few cars, built the engine, trans diff ect and always did the engine tuning myself. I need to figure out how to tune this thing myself before I start playing with camshafts, valve timing ect, if I can't tune it there is no use going any further. Sending the ECU out to a third party in another country is not an option for me because of the logistics and I want to learn how to do it myself anyway. I did a lot of research on the PCV and JBP and the PCV at the time seemed to the answer as it had the most options, I was lead to believe that it could adjust the fuel and timing throughout the RPM range with the PCV and ignition module. With all I have been reading now about how flashing the ECU is the only way to remove the "factory restrictions" I am starting to wonder if flashing the ECU is the way to go. If anyone can explain exactly what the factory restrictions are and how the ECU prevents the PCV from adjusting the fuel or timing please enlighten me. If its only the rate at which the secondary flies open and the rev limiter that can not be adjusted by the PCV I can live with that. But if there is a restriction on timing or fuel then I will have to go another route.

I am by no means trying to compare the PVC with the Guhl or any other ECU flash or say the the PCV is just as good or better. I also do not want to race you so you can show me how great the Guhl flash is. This is my hobby and I am not looking for a bargain, I know the PCV is much more expensive than sending my ECU out to be flashed buy someone else, The enjoyment I get from this is worth every penny to me. I have spent a heck of lot more on the cars I have built.

 

[MotoZen]

I suggest you call or email Guhl's. Don is very helpful and knows an awful lot about what goes on inside the ecu and how they are setup from the manufacturers. He also said that the secondary flies are very restricted on a lot of bikes in order to meet various restrictions and regulations. He also said that removing them is not the best solution. As another option to look at, Flash Tune sells a kit that will allow you to flash your ecu yourself and Guhl's should be releasing their own in a few months. Don called the kit from Flash Tune "hokey" and thinks that his kit will be much better.

Sent from my other favorite addiction (Galaxy S3) using Tapatalk.

 

[NoNine4me]

First let me explain what I am attempting to do, I want to figure out the best way to tune this bike myself. This bike was going to be my next project, I have built a few cars, built the engine, trans diff ect and always did the engine tuning myself. I need to figure out how to tune this thing myself before I start playing with camshafts, valve timing ect, if I can't tune it there is no use going any further. Sending the ECU out to a third party in another country is not an option for me because of the logistics and I want to learn how to do it myself anyway. I did a lot of research on the PCV and JBP and the PCV at the time seemed to the answer as it had the most options, I was lead to believe that it could adjust the fuel and timing throughout the RPM range with the PCV and ignition module. With all I have been reading now about how flashing the ECU is the only way to remove the "factory restrictions" I am starting to wonder if flashing the ECU is the way to go. If anyone can explain exactly what the factory restrictions are and how the ECU prevents the PCV from adjusting the fuel or timing please enlighten me. If its only the rate at which the secondary flies open and the rev limiter that can not be adjusted by the PCV I can live with that. But if there is a restriction on timing or fuel then I will have to go another route.

I am by no means trying to compare the PVC with the Guhl or any other ECU flash or say the the PCV is just as good or better. I also do not want to race you so you can show me how great the Guhl flash is. This is my hobby and I am not looking for a bargain, I know the PCV is much more expensive than sending my ECU out to be flashed buy someone else, The enjoyment I get from this is worth every penny to me. I have spent a heck of lot more on the cars I have built.

You're going to need a dynamometer along with an exhaust probe, and a lot knowledge about the design and engineering of engines to do this yourself. This is not how we did things back in the old days, where we just put on a pipe and then kept changing jets and needles and washers and such until the bike ran right. It's science. We have to know just exactly what our engine can benefit from and what it can take without ruining it. Do it wrong, you could destroy your engine.

What you are trying to do is reinvent the wheel because without serious help from guys who really know this stuff inside and out, you are shooting in the dark.

What you should do in my opinion if you are set on this is get the interface and the software, pull out your ECU, read what the stock settings are and store that info, then send it to Guhls and have him remap it, and take a look and see what he did.

But that sort of defeats the purpose, because you are not going to be able to ever do a better job on this than Don can.

BTW Guhls got my ECU back to me the next day. If you are in Edmonton you are much closer than I was.

 

[Banky2112]

I had a Dyno shop show me on my fuel table chart that he could not tune my fuel within a certain rev range. He said that was the ecu restricting the bike to meet emissions.

To remove this, you unlock or flash the ecu.

Now I asked don Guhl about using a Pcv and an ignition module AFTER I unlocked it, he said it is possible but he does not like PCV or JBP or any of those tuners.

Yes in theory after you unlock the ecu you should be able to add fuel and timing as you see fit until something bad happens lol

Marthy also talks a lot about this as he came ( I think) the closest to tuning out the dip in mid range WITHOUT unlocking the ecu, as I was one of his test guys...

I would talk to don directly, or talk to the flash tune guy, and tell them exactly what you told us, that YOU WANT to tune the bike yourself, and ask if once they unlock it, you can modify the behavior of the ecu via a tuner.


BTW all of the tuners......... Are piggy backs, this is why you can add all the fuel you want but when those demands reach the ecu, it says..... Hey, you can't do that.


It's all for science! Right lol good luck and keep us posted. I might do another tuner to see how much farther I can push it, but for now I just want to ride....

 

[9 Lives]

Thanks for the info everyone. Everybody had to start somewhere including the tuners at Guhls and I fully know that I will never be able to do the same or better that Guhls, but its in my DNA to do it myself. Whatever results I do end up getting I can say I did it myself and yes with guidance and advise from those who have experience, how did they get the experience, by trying different things with it to find out what works best. I think I will wait for the kit that comes out from Guhls and have a look at that.

 

[master paper clip]

If u want to learn how to tune the bike I would highly suggest u talk to marthy, guys a mad scientist when it comes to the tuning stuff so I'm sure he can steer u in the correct direction

 

[Bam Bam]

As far as adjusting your fuel tables if you do want to go with a power commander I have had to dyno techs tell me that the auto tune with the wideband works really well and if you have access to a dyno you can get an ignition module and play with timing. But you are still going to be working at the limits of the Factory restrictions.

 

[9 Lives]

As far as adjusting your fuel tables if you do want to go with a power commander I have had to dyno techs tell me that the auto tune with the wideband works really well and if you have access to a dyno you can get an ignition module and play with timing. But you are still going to be working at the limits of the Factory restrictions.

Which is exactly the reason I am considering other options.

 

[9 Lives]

I watched a how to video about flash tune and it looks very close to the PCV software with some extra options, they even say you can import a PCV map to flash tune. I was thinking this was going to be another big learning curve but its looking good so far. Anyone want to buy a PCV?, just kidding it will give me something to play with while I wait for the Guhl kit to come out.