Pilot Power 3: Initial impressions

[NoNine4me]

I put on a set of new PP3's today. After doing about 40 miles of pretty tight twisties at a moderate pace I would say without a doubt these are a much better street tire than the Q3's. Michelin has really upped the technology here.

First off I could tell the rubber compound was designed to give maximum grip under normal street conditions. Minimal warmup was needed, these things gripped extremely well, even brand new. There is no "release compound" used any longer and you can really start riding quickly almost right off the bat. YOU STILL NEED TO WARM THEM UP A BIT AND BREAK THEM IN, THOUGH! But not nearly to the extent as in the days where all tires were very slippery when new and needed a good bit of riding to break them in.

The second thing I noticed was turn-in. These turn in very quickly and hold the line with extreme precision. The profiles on the front/rear are perfectly designed to work together in a way I've not felt on any other tire thus far. One thing Michelin's done is to do away with nearly all of the tendency for the bike to want to stand up whilst trail-braking into a turn. With the wide tires we use today, this was a by-product of the contact patch being much farther from the centerline of the bike when leaned over. Somehow the PP3's have been profiled to darn near eliminate any tendency for the bike to stand up, which we normally would compensate for with some amount of countersteering. Far less of this is needed with the PP3's than with any tire I've used to day (stock BT23's, Pirelli Angel GT's, Dunlop Q3's, and now the PP3's).

The road feel is excellent, and I have the impression the tire is a bit lighter than the Q3 as well, although I haven't checked to see if this is true. The tires are pretty lightweight, though. The rubber is quite resilient and the compliance with small pavement irregularities is very good. The tires work well with the suspension to instill an extremely high level of confidence in the bike.

Whether driving out of a turn, or braking hard, the feel of the rubber communicated a sense that the tire could give a lot more without any issue. Hard braking straight up was excellent, on dry pavement, and also suggested there was plenty of reserve. The bike just asks to be ridden harder.

I can't comment on deep lean angles or higher speeds yet but if I get a chance I'll update this thread.

 

[FZ8Panda]

Cool, thanks for the initial impressions. I was split between getting the PP3 or the PR4's. Think I'm gonna give the PP3's a try.

 

[Woody146]

Glad you like them! I loved em..except the life

 

[Umyaya]

Glad you like them! I loved em..except the life

Just installed pilot roads 4. Game over. Never going back to battleaxe and think anybody who doesn't run these are increasing their risk of crashing! It honestly feels like I am riding a whole diff bike.

 

[NoNine4me]

Just installed pilot roads 4. Game over. Never going back to battleaxe and think anybody who doesn't run these are increasing their risk of crashing! It honestly feels like I am riding a whole diff bike.

That's a good commuting and touring tire and has excellent road grip. Even some guys have done track days on them. The PP3 is stickier, the Q3 much more so on the racetrack, of course. But no one ever said the Q3 was a long-lived tire.

Let's be more accurate, any tire is fine as long as the rider pays attention to what the tire can and cannot do. A road tire is going to grip better in everyday conditions but when used for the track, will tend to stick and stick and then suddenly cut loose. A track day tire such as the Q3, if the pressures are set right, will stick and stick and then start to squirm and then start to spin up controllably, before letting loose. Very different kind of rubber compounds and carcass.

PP3, PR4, all much better for road use and in the wet.

 

[NoNine4me]

So, the update thus far...I posted this in a separate thread but again here for reference:

I did some more riding on my new PP3's and noticed the front felt a little vague as compared to when I had the Dunlop Q3's mounted. It wasn't a grip issue, I just felt the feedback wasn't what it should have been.

If the front tire is taller than the Q3, or the rear tire is shorter, this would change the geometry by increasing rake/trail, and would explain the vague feel.

Turns out I was right about the tire sizing being different enough to cause this issue. I corrected it by doing several things:

-Raised the ride height in the rear by adding 2 mm, which was about 1/2 turn on the threaded preload adjuster on the Ohlins shock.

-Reduced the pressure in the rear tire by one pound, from 37 to 36.

-Reduced the pressure in the front tire from 33 to 31 pounds.

-Increased the damping adjustment by one click on the shock.

People are always posting questions about ride height, tire pressure, and suspension settings so it might be interesting if I explained just why I did all these things and why the adjustments seem so "small".

First off the bike was already perfectly set up for the Q3, so it wasn't too far off. The differences caused by the new PP3s were minor, but definitely noticeable. The rear tire was lower in height, causing rake and trail to increase, which caused a slight sensation of understeer. This reduces confidence in corner entry and discourages trail braking and deeper lean angles, naturally.

So the first thing was to measure the tires and confirm suspicions which I did. Next thing was to adjust the ride height; one test ride showed me I was on the right track but I'd gone a couple of millimeters too far. I was at about 4 mm increase and reduced it to a 2 mm increase.

During the first test ride I also reduced the shock damping by two clicks to "loosen" up the rear a bit, which helped but it was still too harsh and a touch overbalanced, weight bias that is, toward the front. But the understeer was completely gone.

When I got back to the garage I checked the hot tire pressures and found that the front had only increased by 2 pounds from cold (33 to 35) and the rear only three pounds (37 to 40). I am looking for about a 10 percent increase so I dropped the rear to 36 psi and the front to 31 psi (I weigh 150 pounds geared up so this may not work for anyone else).

Dropping the tire pressures increases the size of the contact patch, which increases feedback from the pavement as well as traction and road feel/ride quality. So going to 31 psi in the front was a big change, increasing grip and feel while reducing rake/trail. One psi in the rear also increased traction and feel with just a slight change in ride height.

Someone is bound to wonder why I reduced the damping on the first test, when I'd increased the preload, as it's usually customary to crank up damping along with preload. Reason is because my shock only has one damping adjustment which changes both rebound and preload with each click. So reducing compression damping let the rear end follow the road a bit better. After I made the adjustments above after the first test ride I cranked up the damping by one click which was a good match to the change in tire pressures and ride height.

(A note on damping adjustments; if the tire is more compliant, the damping can be stiffened, which is desirable. A stiff tire puts more demands on the spring and shock and requires a lighter damping adjustment (think of a touring bike). Sport bikes want the opposite; a light, compliant, grippy tire with stiffer suspension, with less suspension motion and more control. Reducing the tire pressures and spring preload allowed me to increase damping which is a good thing.)

Bottom line is these changes brought the bike right into line; this setup is different from the setup with the Q3s, and for street riding is much better than what I had from the Q3s. These PP3's deliver all the grip any sane rider could ever want along with excellent compliance (ride quality) and feedback. The bike can now just hammer through rough pavement, dirt-bike style, and loves to be on the gas. I've got about a 1/4" of unused rubber on the rear tire, each side. Past 40 degrees the tire is a pure slick with no grooves at all, so I'm into that area about 5 degrees. Like Michelin said, once on the grippier, more compliant side of the tire (2CT they call it) the bike feels terrific, it loves to rear-wheel steer. I'm not talking about spinning the tire, I'm talking about setting the bike up "loose", dirtbike style, using a bit less lean angle (good policy on the street anyway) and getting on the throttle earlier, like the "squaring off" style that the GP racers of the 80's and 90's were well-known for. This being the saner version of that, of course.

PP3's are HIGHLY recommended for the FZ8 for street riding, the best tire I've used thus far. The Q3's are going to be a much better tire for track use, though, but the setup would have to be very different as that's a totally different environment; your tire pressures and damping rates would need to be changed quite a lot.

I can't address how long they will last but that's not so much of an issue, if I get 2,000 miles I'll be very satisfied.

BTW did I mention the bike is fookin' great now? Best naked Yamaha ever made, one of the best out there for sure.

 

[NoNine4me]

Here's an update on the differences between the Dunlop Q3 and Pilot Power 3 as far as the tire sizes. (The good folks at Michelin got back to me with the dimensions on the PP3 today).

Q3 Front: 604.5mm diameter 121.7mm width
PP3 Front: 600.6mm diameter 117.7mm width

Q3 Rear: 636.3mm diameter 187.2mm width
PP3 Rear: 630.2mm diameter 176.8mm width

So, the Dunlop rear was 6mm taller and 11mm wider than the PP3. The Dunlop front was 4mm taller and 4mm wider. Even though it seems these differences might "even out" in the actual situation, the rear needed to be raised about 2-3 mm to compensate. The Michelins also have a different construction, profile, and rubber compound and need to be run at different pressures. Something to keep in mind whenever changing tires, get the actual dimensions and if you can, change your setup to compensate.